Overweight women 30% more likely to be infertile

Question:

Overweight women are 30 percent more likely to be infertile than women of a normal weight, a Hong Kong expert said in a report published on Monday.

saves money because there’s no need for the pill Geez, there is a huge I’m-an-obesity-troll wave going on again or what? Go and sue some fat people for wasting your prescious tax money instead of littering NGs.

Response:

Overweight women are 30 percent more likely to be infertile than women of a normal weight, a Hong Kong expert said in a report published on Monday. The chances of infertility can be up to 170 percent higher than usual among women who are so overweight that they are technically obese, the expert said. Carina Chan of the University of Hong Kong’s department of obstetrics and gynaecology told the South China Morning Post increasing numbers of women were being treated for infertility. The Queen Mary Hospital, the University of Hong Kong’s teaching hospital, admits 1 300 patients a year with infertility problems compared to 300 a year in 1993. "Obesity is one of the factors," Chan said, adding that one in four Hong Kong women is now either overweight or obese. Overweight women are also more likely to have miscarriages, having a 15 percent chance compared with an 11 percent chance among women of normal weight, she said. Levels of obesity have climbed sharply in Hong Kong in the past three decades with experts blaming the switch to a more Western diet, long office hours and sedentary lifestyles. – Sapa-dpa

Response:

Postponing the menopause for up to 12 years ?

Question:

Mickey <mic…@omega-advisors.com> wrote: > maybe that is how *that* person saw their children but i sure don’t.  i look > at my soon to be 21 year old son and think of him as a "young man" and not > as my little boy.  he isn’t a "little boy" anymore.  i think it’s harmful to > a parent’s relationship with their child if that’s how they always see their > kids.  to me, you have to grow right along with them.

It’s actually pretty common, just doesn’t mean _everybody_ acts it out or experiences it. It’s along the lines of the old adage, "A son leaves home, a daughter is a daughter for life." One thing about this group, it always jumps on generalities as if it applies personally. I’m guilty of doing that sort of jumping, myself. I guess we all pride ourselves on not being just like everybody else or something. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> just my two cents. > mickey > "Jette Goldie" <j…@blueyonder.com.uk> wrote in message > news:f93ie.32912$G8.19843@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk… > > Long time ago someone told me that to a Mother her > > son is always a little boy, even when he’s full grown, > > but her daughter she sees as woman grown even > > when she’s a child, and hopes for a future friend. > > Whereas to a Father his daughter is always "his little > > girl", but his son he sees as a man-to-be and a > > comrade. > > — > > Jette Goldie > > je…@blueyonder.co.uk > > Apache and Dakota > > http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/kitties.html

– Keera in Norway ~~ Think big. Shrink to fit. http://home.online.no/~kafox/

Response:

"Mickey" <mic…@omega-advisors.com> wrote in message

news:3eu7deF4ui3hU1@individual.net… > maybe that is how *that* person saw their children but i sure don’t.  i > look > at my soon to be 21 year old son and think of him as a "young man" and not > as my little boy.  he isn’t a "little boy" anymore.  i think it’s harmful > to > a parent’s relationship with their child if that’s how they always see > their > kids.  to me, you have to grow right along with them.

And let them go.  My kids sometimes thank me for 1) being so strict while they lived at home and 2) trusting them to make their own choices once they left. I agree with you, though.  The parental feelings don’t really go away, but they get the respect I give to other adults. Marilee – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> just my two cents. > mickey > "Jette Goldie" <j…@blueyonder.com.uk> wrote in message > news:f93ie.32912$G8.19843@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk… >> Long time ago someone told me that to a Mother her >> son is always a little boy, even when he’s full grown, >> but her daughter she sees as woman grown even >> when she’s a child, and hopes for a future friend. >> Whereas to a Father his daughter is always "his little >> girl", but his son he sees as a man-to-be and a >> comrade. >> — >> Jette Goldie >> je…@blueyonder.co.uk >> Apache and Dakota >> http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/kitties.html

Response:

maybe that is how *that* person saw their children but i sure don’t.  i look at my soon to be 21 year old son and think of him as a "young man" and not as my little boy.  he isn’t a "little boy" anymore.  i think it’s harmful to a parent’s relationship with their child if that’s how they always see their kids.  to me, you have to grow right along with them. just my two cents. mickey "Jette Goldie" <j…@blueyonder.com.uk> wrote in message

news:f93ie.32912$G8.19843@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Long time ago someone told me that to a Mother her > son is always a little boy, even when he’s full grown, > but her daughter she sees as woman grown even > when she’s a child, and hopes for a future friend. > Whereas to a Father his daughter is always "his little > girl", but his son he sees as a man-to-be and a > comrade. > — > Jette Goldie > je…@blueyonder.co.uk > Apache and Dakota > http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/kitties.html

Response:

In article <1gwmo7r.a0cpnrl2ah0oN%skytten….@online.no>,  skytten….@online.no (Keera Ann Fox) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Priscilla Ballou <vze23…@verizon.net> wrote: > > In article <1gwmeko.1oav9cz8wgj7uN%skytten….@online.no>, > >  skytten….@online.no (Keera Ann Fox) wrote: > > > Priscilla Ballou <vze23…@verizon.net> wrote: > > > > In article <3enudiF43uv…@individual.net>, > > > >  "Marilee" <marilee.erick…@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > "Chakolate" <chakolateDeathToSpamm…@allvantage.com> wrote in > > > > > message > > > > > news:Xns965686AC346E4chakolatehotmailcom@81.174.12.30… > > > > > > I guess I just don’t get why it’s so very important for a woman to > > > > > > use > > > > > > her own eggs.  I thought that whole ‘my seed, fruit of my loins’ > > > > > > crap > > > > > > was > > > > > > a male thing. > > > > > I don’t think so.  I wanted my own children.  Had I been unable to > > > > > conceive > > > > > I would have had no difficulty deciding to try another method, but I > > > > > wanted > > > > > "flesh of my flesh". > > > Me, I’m a bit sad that my mother will have no grandchildren, just a bit, > > > because my pleasure that there will be no more generations the mothers > > > in my family can screw up is greater. > > > > And when I think of the baby I might have had but didn’t, it’s my > > > > genetic daughter’s non-existence I mourn. > > > How do you know it would have been a girl? > > I don’t.  But it’s the non-existence of my daughter that I mourn. > And not your son? I’m just trying to understand why you don’t mourn a > child, gender unknown.

I haven’t explored that question, so I can’t answer it for you.  Not sure I would, anyway.  It’s a bit personal. Priscilla — "Inside every older person is a younger person — wondering what the hell happened."  – Cora Harvey Armstrong

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Priscilla Ballou <vze23…@verizon.net> wrote: > In article <1gwmo7r.a0cpnrl2ah0oN%skytten….@online.no>, >  skytten….@online.no (Keera Ann Fox) wrote: > > Priscilla Ballou <vze23…@verizon.net> wrote: > > > In article <1gwmeko.1oav9cz8wgj7uN%skytten….@online.no>, > > >  skytten….@online.no (Keera Ann Fox) wrote: > > > > Priscilla Ballou <vze23…@verizon.net> wrote: > > > > > In article <3enudiF43uv…@individual.net>, > > > > >  "Marilee" <marilee.erick…@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > "Chakolate" <chakolateDeathToSpamm…@allvantage.com> wrote in > > > > > > message > > > > > > news:Xns965686AC346E4chakolatehotmailcom@81.174.12.30… > > > > > > > I guess I just don’t get why it’s so very important for a woman to > > > > > > > use > > > > > > > her own eggs.  I thought that whole ‘my seed, fruit of my loins’ > > > > > > > crap > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > a male thing. > > > > > > I don’t think so.  I wanted my own children.  Had I been unable to > > > > > > conceive > > > > > > I would have had no difficulty deciding to try another method, but I > > > > > > wanted > > > > > > "flesh of my flesh". > > > > Me, I’m a bit sad that my mother will have no grandchildren, just a bit, > > > > because my pleasure that there will be no more generations the mothers > > > > in my family can screw up is greater. > > > > > And when I think of the baby I might have had but didn’t, it’s my > > > > > genetic daughter’s non-existence I mourn. > > > > How do you know it would have been a girl? > > > I don’t.  But it’s the non-existence of my daughter that I mourn. > > And not your son? I’m just trying to understand why you don’t mourn a > > child, gender unknown. > I haven’t explored that question, so I can’t answer it for you.  Not > sure I would, anyway.  It’s a bit personal.

OK, I was just wondering. I couldn’t put a gender to my unborn kid, myself. — Keera in Norway ~~ Think big. Shrink to fit. http://home.online.no/~kafox/

Response:

"Keera Ann Fox" <skytten….@online.no> wrote in message news:1gwmo7r.a0cpnrl2ah0oN%skytten.fox@online.no… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Priscilla Ballou <vze23…@verizon.net> wrote: > > In article <1gwmeko.1oav9cz8wgj7uN%skytten….@online.no>, > >  skytten….@online.no (Keera Ann Fox) wrote: > > > Priscilla Ballou <vze23…@verizon.net> wrote: > > > > In article <3enudiF43uv…@individual.net>, > > > >  "Marilee" <marilee.erick…@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > "Chakolate" <chakolateDeathToSpamm…@allvantage.com> wrote in message > > > > > news:Xns965686AC346E4chakolatehotmailcom@81.174.12.30… > > > > > > I guess I just don’t get why it’s so very important for a woman to use > > > > > > her own eggs.  I thought that whole ‘my seed, fruit of my loins’ crap > > > > > > was > > > > > > a male thing. > > > > > I don’t think so.  I wanted my own children.  Had I been unable to > > > > > conceive > > > > > I would have had no difficulty deciding to try another method, but I > > > > > wanted > > > > > "flesh of my flesh". > > > Me, I’m a bit sad that my mother will have no grandchildren, just a bit, > > > because my pleasure that there will be no more generations the mothers > > > in my family can screw up is greater. > > > > And when I think of the baby I might have had but didn’t, it’s my > > > > genetic daughter’s non-existence I mourn. > > > How do you know it would have been a girl? > > I don’t.  But it’s the non-existence of my daughter that I mourn. > And not your son? I’m just trying to understand why you don’t mourn a > child, gender unknown.

Long time ago someone told me that to a Mother her son is always a little boy, even when he’s full grown, but her daughter she sees as woman grown even when she’s a child, and hopes for a future friend. Whereas to a Father his daughter is always "his little girl", but his son he sees as a man-to-be and a comrade. — Jette Goldie je…@blueyonder.co.uk Apache and Dakota http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/kitties.html

Response:

"Jette Goldie" <j…@blueyonder.com.uk> wrote in message

news:f93ie.32912$G8.19843@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk… > Long time ago someone told me that to a Mother her > son is always a little boy, even when he’s full grown, > but her daughter she sees as woman grown even > when she’s a child, and hopes for a future friend.

Well, this would depend on the mother–and the children. > Whereas to a Father his daughter is always "his little > girl", but his son he sees as a man-to-be and a > comrade.

Likewise. There’s no "one size fits all" attitude. Marilee

Response:

"Marilee" <marilee.erick…@gmail.com> wrote in news:3enudiF43uvvU1@individual.net: > I don’t think so.  I wanted my own children.  Had I been unable to > conceive I would have had no difficulty deciding to try another > method, but I wanted "flesh of my flesh".

I think I get that part.  The part I’m having trouble with is the part where they go to such lengths.  Having babies Twelve Years post menopause is downright scary.  To me.   Chak — What if …  What if the hokey pokey really is what it’s all about?

Response:

"Chakolate" <chakolateDeathToSpamm…@allvantage.com> wrote in message

news:Xns96578E27DD294chakolatehotmailcom@81.174.12.30… > "Marilee" <marilee.erick…@gmail.com> wrote in > news:3enudiF43uvvU1@individual.net: >> I don’t think so.  I wanted my own children.  Had I been unable to >> conceive I would have had no difficulty deciding to try another >> method, but I wanted "flesh of my flesh". > I think I get that part.  The part I’m having trouble with is the part > where they go to such lengths.  Having babies Twelve Years post menopause > is downright scary.  To me.

It’s scary to me, too.  But I started having babies at 22, and was done at 30.  Women who start at 42 puzzle me. Marilee – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Chak > — > What if …  What if the hokey pokey really is what it’s all about?

Response:

"Marilee" <marilee.erick…@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:3epki9F49t7kU1@individual.net… > "Chakolate" <chakolateDeathToSpamm…@allvantage.com> wrote in message > news:Xns96578E27DD294chakolatehotmailcom@81.174.12.30… > >….Having babies Twelve Years post menopause > > is downright scary.  To me. > It’s scary to me, too.  But I started having babies at 22, and was done at > 30.  Women who start at 42 puzzle me.

——— Suppose they find Mr. Right at 40? Or suppose they *haven’t* found Mr. Right, and they’re 42, and they just decide it’s now or never, even if it’s with Mr. Wrong or Mr. Anonymous Donor? Don’t misunderstand; I think it’s nutsy to wait till *after* menopause and then go through a pregnancy with a donor egg and a donor sperm.  At  that point IMO it certainly makes more sense to adopt.  But a healthy woman in her early 40s–why not? My boss, for example, had her first (and only) baby at 41, after 8 years of marriage and several miscarriages.  That kid is the light of her life. Eva

Response:

"Eva" <EvaDStructio…@NOverizon.net> wrote in message

news:yaOhe.2110$_f7.778@trndny01… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Marilee" <marilee.erick…@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:3epki9F49t7kU1@individual.net… >> "Chakolate" <chakolateDeathToSpamm…@allvantage.com> wrote in message >> news:Xns96578E27DD294chakolatehotmailcom@81.174.12.30… >> >….Having babies Twelve Years post menopause >> > is downright scary.  To me. >> It’s scary to me, too.  But I started having babies at 22, and was done >> at >> 30.  Women who start at 42 puzzle me. > ——— > Suppose they find Mr. Right at 40? > Or suppose they *haven’t* found Mr. Right, and they’re 42, and they just > decide it’s now or never, even if it’s with Mr. Wrong or Mr. Anonymous > Donor?

I think they should go for it. > Don’t misunderstand; I think it’s nutsy to wait till *after* menopause and > then go through a pregnancy with a donor egg and a donor sperm.  At  that > point IMO it certainly makes more sense to adopt.  But a healthy woman in > her early 40s–why not?

I don’t have a problem with it; I just wonder why 40 and not 35, or 32, or 37?  Remember a few years ago when the news was widely reported that pregnancy after 40 was not something a woman should count on?  What I meant by "puzzle me" was more of a "Why not start a few years earlier" thing. > My boss, for example, had her first (and only) baby at 41, after 8 years > of > marriage and several miscarriages.  That kid is the light of her life.

Again, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having a baby at that age. I think that postponing pregnancy until that time and [possibly] being faced with major difficulties in conceiving and carrying to term is something women should be more aware of than they seem to be. Marilee – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Eva

Response:

"Marilee" <marilee.erick…@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:3epki9F49t7kU1@individual.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Chakolate" <chakolateDeathToSpamm…@allvantage.com> wrote in message > news:Xns96578E27DD294chakolatehotmailcom@81.174.12.30… > > "Marilee" <marilee.erick…@gmail.com> wrote in > > news:3enudiF43uvvU1@individual.net: > >> I don’t think so.  I wanted my own children.  Had I been unable to > >> conceive I would have had no difficulty deciding to try another > >> method, but I wanted "flesh of my flesh". > > I think I get that part.  The part I’m having trouble with is the part > > where they go to such lengths.  Having babies Twelve Years post menopause > > is downright scary.  To me. > It’s scary to me, too.  But I started having babies at 22, and was done at > 30.  Women who start at 42 puzzle me.

It doesn’t puzzle me if they just finally found the person they want to marry &/or be the father of their child(ren), & it’s a "now or never" deal, re: getting pregnant.  It does puzzle me when they’ve had the opportunity (with everything in place) all along, & then at 42 – 45 decide to have a baby – whether their first, or another one.  By that point, I just didn’t have the energy anymore… Cathy

Response:

In article <EdmdnScJhq5jJxrfRVn…@adelphia.com>,  "Cathy Friedmann" <c…@adelphia.net> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Marilee" <marilee.erick…@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:3epki9F49t7kU1@individual.net… > > "Chakolate" <chakolateDeathToSpamm…@allvantage.com> wrote in message > > news:Xns96578E27DD294chakolatehotmailcom@81.174.12.30… > > > "Marilee" <marilee.erick…@gmail.com> wrote in > > > news:3enudiF43uvvU1@individual.net: > > >> I don’t think so.  I wanted my own children.  Had I been unable to > > >> conceive I would have had no difficulty deciding to try another > > >> method, but I wanted "flesh of my flesh". > > > I think I get that part.  The part I’m having trouble with is the part > > > where they go to such lengths.  Having babies Twelve Years post > menopause > > > is downright scary.  To me. > > It’s scary to me, too.  But I started having babies at 22, and was done at > > 30.  Women who start at 42 puzzle me. > It doesn’t puzzle me if they just finally found the person they want to > marry &/or be the father of their child(ren), & it’s a "now or never" deal, > re: getting pregnant.  It does puzzle me when they’ve had the opportunity > (with everything in place) all along, & then at 42 – 45 decide to have a > baby – whether their first, or another one.  By that point, I just didn’t > have the energy anymore…

My sister and b-i-l tried for quite a bit and finally got Emma when my sister was 44. Priscilla — "Inside every older person is a younger person — wondering what the hell happened."  – Cora Harvey Armstrong

Response:

In article <1gwmeko.1oav9cz8wgj7uN%skytten….@online.no>,  skytten….@online.no (Keera Ann Fox) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Priscilla Ballou <vze23…@verizon.net> wrote: > > In article <3enudiF43uv…@individual.net>, > >  "Marilee" <marilee.erick…@gmail.com> wrote: > > > "Chakolate" <chakolateDeathToSpamm…@allvantage.com> wrote in message > > > news:Xns965686AC346E4chakolatehotmailcom@81.174.12.30… > > > > I guess I just don’t get why it’s so very important for a woman to use > > > > her own eggs.  I thought that whole ‘my seed, fruit of my loins’ crap > > > > was > > > > a male thing. > > > I don’t think so.  I wanted my own children.  Had I been unable to > > > conceive > > > I would have had no difficulty deciding to try another method, but I > > > wanted > > > "flesh of my flesh". > Me, I’m a bit sad that my mother will have no grandchildren, just a bit, > because my pleasure that there will be no more generations the mothers > in my family can screw up is greater. > > And when I think of the baby I might have had but didn’t, it’s my > > genetic daughter’s non-existence I mourn. > How do you know it would have been a girl?

I don’t.  But it’s the non-existence of my daughter that I mourn. Priscilla — "Inside every older person is a younger person — wondering what the hell happened."  – Cora Harvey Armstrong

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Priscilla Ballou <vze23…@verizon.net> wrote: > In article <1gwmeko.1oav9cz8wgj7uN%skytten….@online.no>, >  skytten….@online.no (Keera Ann Fox) wrote: > > Priscilla Ballou <vze23…@verizon.net> wrote: > > > In article <3enudiF43uv…@individual.net>, > > >  "Marilee" <marilee.erick…@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > "Chakolate" <chakolateDeathToSpamm…@allvantage.com> wrote in message > > > > news:Xns965686AC346E4chakolatehotmailcom@81.174.12.30… > > > > > I guess I just don’t get why it’s so very important for a woman to use > > > > > her own eggs.  I thought that whole ‘my seed, fruit of my loins’ crap > > > > > was > > > > > a male thing. > > > > I don’t think so.  I wanted my own children.  Had I been unable to > > > > conceive > > > > I would have had no difficulty deciding to try another method, but I > > > > wanted > > > > "flesh of my flesh". > > Me, I’m a bit sad that my mother will have no grandchildren, just a bit, > > because my pleasure that there will be no more generations the mothers > > in my family can screw up is greater. > > > And when I think of the baby I might have had but didn’t, it’s my > > > genetic daughter’s non-existence I mourn. > > How do you know it would have been a girl? > I don’t.  But it’s the non-existence of my daughter that I mourn.

And not your son? I’m just trying to understand why you don’t mourn a child, gender unknown. — Keera in Norway ~~ Think big. Shrink to fit. http://home.online.no/~kafox/

Response:

"FurPaw" <furrealpaw…@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:ZuudnWEsYKUaxRrfRVn-gA@comcast.com… > …. And some, of > course, mate with everything in sight, which is another strategy for > insuring the continuation of genes.

———— Doesn’t always work, though; look at Bill C……..oh, never mind. Eva

Response:

Eva wrote: > "FurPaw" <furrealpaw…@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:ZuudnWEsYKUaxRrfRVn-gA@comcast.com… >>…. And some, of >>course, mate with everything in sight, which is another strategy for >>insuring the continuation of genes. > ———— > Doesn’t always work, though; look at Bill C……..oh, never mind.

<BEG> FurPaw — "Here we go round the prickly pear   At five o’clock in the morning." – T. S. Eliot To reply, unleash the dog

Response:

Priscilla Ballou <vze23…@verizon.net> wrote: > In article <3enudiF43uv…@individual.net>, >  "Marilee" <marilee.erick…@gmail.com> wrote: > > "Chakolate" <chakolateDeathToSpamm…@allvantage.com> wrote in message > > news:Xns965686AC346E4chakolatehotmailcom@81.174.12.30… > > > I guess I just don’t get why it’s so very important for a woman to use > > > her own eggs.  I thought that whole ‘my seed, fruit of my loins’ crap was > > > a male thing. > > I don’t think so.  I wanted my own children.  Had I been unable to conceive > > I would have had no difficulty deciding to try another method, but I wanted > > "flesh of my flesh".

Me, I’m a bit sad that my mother will have no grandchildren, just a bit, because my pleasure that there will be no more generations the mothers in my family can screw up is greater. > And when I think of the baby I might have had but didn’t, it’s my > genetic daughter’s non-existence I mourn.

How do you know it would have been a girl? — Keera in Norway ~~ Think big. Shrink to fit. http://home.online.no/~kafox/

Response:

In article <3enudiF43uv…@individual.net>, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - "Marilee" <marilee.erick…@gmail.com> wrote: > "Chakolate" <chakolateDeathToSpamm…@allvantage.com> wrote in message > news:Xns965686AC346E4chakolatehotmailcom@81.174.12.30… > > "bluerabbit" <bluerabbit1…@yahoo.com> wrote in > > news:1116061463.954712.42860@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com: > >> The team, from the University of Tennessee in the USA, took cells from > >> the surface of adult ovaries and incubated them in an > >> estrogen-containing medium for 5-6 days. They found that the cells > >> differentiated into mature oocytes that were potentially capable of > >> being fertilized. > > Okay, color me confused.  If a woman is born with all the eggs she’s > > going to have, and if as she grows older (and the eggs grow older, too) > > she’s much more likely to bear infants with birth defects (Down’s > > Syndrome, among others) then isn’t forcing her ovaries to produce more > > eggs after normal menopause just asking for trouble? > > I guess I just don’t get why it’s so very important for a woman to use > > her own eggs.  I thought that whole ‘my seed, fruit of my loins’ crap was > > a male thing. > I don’t think so.  I wanted my own children.  Had I been unable to conceive > I would have had no difficulty deciding to try another method, but I wanted > "flesh of my flesh".

And when I think of the baby I might have had but didn’t, it’s my genetic daughter’s non-existence I mourn. Priscilla — "Inside every older person is a younger person — wondering what the hell happened."  – Cora Harvey Armstrong

Response:

"Chakolate" <chakolateDeathToSpamm…@allvantage.com> wrote in message

news:Xns965686AC346E4chakolatehotmailcom@81.174.12.30… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "bluerabbit" <bluerabbit1…@yahoo.com> wrote in > news:1116061463.954712.42860@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com: >> The team, from the University of Tennessee in the USA, took cells from >> the surface of adult ovaries and incubated them in an >> estrogen-containing medium for 5-6 days. They found that the cells >> differentiated into mature oocytes that were potentially capable of >> being fertilized. > Okay, color me confused.  If a woman is born with all the eggs she’s > going to have, and if as she grows older (and the eggs grow older, too) > she’s much more likely to bear infants with birth defects (Down’s > Syndrome, among others) then isn’t forcing her ovaries to produce more > eggs after normal menopause just asking for trouble? > I guess I just don’t get why it’s so very important for a woman to use > her own eggs.  I thought that whole ‘my seed, fruit of my loins’ crap was > a male thing.

I don’t think so.  I wanted my own children.  Had I been unable to conceive I would have had no difficulty deciding to try another method, but I wanted "flesh of my flesh". Marilee

Response:

"Marilee" <marilee.erick…@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:3enudiF43uvvU1@individual.net… > "Chakolate" <chakolateDeathToSpamm…@allvantage.com> wrote in message > news:Xns965686AC346E4chakolatehotmailcom@81.174.12.30… > > I guess I just don’t get why it’s so very important for a woman to use > > her own eggs.  I thought that whole ‘my seed, fruit of my loins’ crap was > > a male thing. > I don’t think so.  I wanted my own children.  Had I been unable to conceive > I would have had no difficulty deciding to try another method, but I wanted > "flesh of my flesh".

———- I agree with Marilee. Maybe part of it is vanity, wanting a child who looks like you, has your traits; but I also believe (this is just my personal belief, mind you) that the desire to pass along your genetic material is on a deeper level a desire for a kind of immortality. Eva

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Eva wrote: > "Marilee" <marilee.erick…@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:3enudiF43uvvU1@individual.net… >>"Chakolate" <chakolateDeathToSpamm…@allvantage.com> wrote in message >>news:Xns965686AC346E4chakolatehotmailcom@81.174.12.30… >>>I guess I just don’t get why it’s so very important for a woman to use >>>her own eggs.  I thought that whole ‘my seed, fruit of my loins’ crap >>> was >>>a male thing. >>I don’t think so.  I wanted my own children.  Had I been unable to >> conceive >>I would have had no difficulty deciding to try another method, but I >> wanted >>"flesh of my flesh". > I agree with Marilee. > Maybe part of it is vanity, wanting a child who looks like you, has your > traits; but I also believe (this is just my personal belief, mind you) that > the desire to pass along your genetic material is on a deeper level a desire > for a kind of immortality.

No surprise – all known lifeforms are geared to reproduce and pass on their genes.  It’s only in the past 25 years or so that women have had the option of giving birth to children that are not genetically related to them, and that usually takes some heavy-duty forebrain work to get around the biological drive towards self-reproduction.  Women who can’t bear children are considered "inadequate" (historically, at least, and still in many places), and women who choose not to are (still) often considered selfish, odd, un-female.  Women who adopt children are often considered wonderfully unselfish. Men – and males of any species – have always had the problem of not knowing whether their pregnant partners are carrying their genetic children.  Some males will stick like glue to the female they have just impregnated, with the effect of preventing her from mating with another male.  Some males will kill the offspring of a female and mate with her as soon as she goes into estrus again.  And some, of course, mate with everything in sight, which is another strategy for insuring the continuation of genes. FurPaw — "Here we go round the prickly pear   At five o’clock in the morning." – T. S. Eliot To reply, unleash the dog

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Chakolate <chakolateDeathToSpamm…@allvantage.com> wrote: > "bluerabbit" <bluerabbit1…@yahoo.com> wrote in > news:1116061463.954712.42860@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com: > > The team, from the University of Tennessee in the USA, took cells from > > the surface of adult ovaries and incubated them in an > > estrogen-containing medium for 5-6 days. They found that the cells > > differentiated into mature oocytes that were potentially capable of > > being fertilized. > Okay, color me confused.  If a woman is born with all the eggs she’s > going to have, and if as she grows older (and the eggs grow older, too) > she’s much more likely to bear infants with birth defects (Down’s > Syndrome, among others) then isn’t forcing her ovaries to produce more > eggs after normal menopause just asking for trouble?  

Probably. And adding all that estrogen to a body that doesn’t want it, is probably also asking for trouble. > I guess I just don’t get why it’s so very important for a woman to use > her own eggs.  I thought that whole ‘my seed, fruit of my loins’ crap was > a male thing.

Apparantly not. Or rather: Many of today’s women are adopting attitudes that used to be male only. — Keera in Norway ~~ Think big. Shrink to fit. http://home.online.no/~kafox/

Response:

"bluerabbit" <bluerabbit1…@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1116061463.954712.42860@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com: > The team, from the University of Tennessee in the USA, took cells from > the surface of adult ovaries and incubated them in an > estrogen-containing medium for 5-6 days. They found that the cells > differentiated into mature oocytes that were potentially capable of > being fertilized.

Okay, color me confused.  If a woman is born with all the eggs she’s going to have, and if as she grows older (and the eggs grow older, too) she’s much more likely to bear infants with birth defects (Down’s Syndrome, among others) then isn’t forcing her ovaries to produce more eggs after normal menopause just asking for trouble?   I guess I just don’t get why it’s so very important for a woman to use her own eggs.  I thought that whole ‘my seed, fruit of my loins’ crap was a male thing.   Chak — What if …  What if the hokey pokey really is what it’s all about?

Response:

"And finally, in a study with even greater implications for the treatment of infertility, researchers report the first successful attempt to grow human oocytes in the laboratory. The team, from the University of Tennessee in the USA, took cells from the surface of adult ovaries and incubated them in an estrogen-containing medium for 5-6 days. They found that the cells differentiated into mature oocytes that were potentially capable of being fertilized. Although it is at a very early stage, the work may open up another treatment option for infertile women who currently rely on egg donation to have a child, and possibly even enable women to postpone the menopause for up to 12 years, the authors predict." http://louisc.obgynworld.com/UM/T.asp?A2.11.1714.1.319321

Response:

New to this newsgroup

Question:

When I was in my late teens, and exams didn’t show that I had a sinus infection/headache.  Along with my symptoms, I was diagnosed wiht migraines.  A few years later I started seeing a neurologist. Welcome to the group(((CHristopher))))..  We’re here to listen and support you.

Response:

Thanks so much for taking the time to give me all this information, Michelle.  I began charting my cycle and pain medication usage when I was trying to get pregnant.  It should be easy to add the headaches to the chart. Best, Jo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jo, I think all that I can mostly tell you is that I had migraines as a child, but when I went on the pill at 17, they stopped.  I didn’t go off the pill until I was 27…then everything started.  I just got married and I had intermittent migraines and the endometriosis started.  We began seeing doctors about then.  I suffered a miscarriage and an ectopic pregnancy by 1993 when I came across a new gynecologist.  He suggested the Lupron shots. At that point I had not made a connection between my "headaches" and my cycle.  The Lupron sent me into a new life.  The migraines became unbearable and that was new to me, so treating them was very difficult.  Imitrex shots were new then, so I used them.   They didn’t offer enough help though and I was miserable.  After getting off of the Lupron, my doctor really assessed the situation and said he thought I became very sensitive and we noticed that hormonal fluctuations, no matter how small, sent me into a migraine. He was way out of his league, so he said to seek out a neurologist. I found a wonderful doctor who introduced me to DHE 45 shots.  At that time I was probably in rebound with Imitrex as it never lasted long enough becauxe my hormonal migraines were always three days.  The shots gave me a new outlook on life.  Well he retired and I had to find a new doctor. The short version of this is that I’ve learned so much about the correlation of hormones and migraines…at least for myself.  I also know there are myths floating around out there about women not going on birth control if they have migraines—pure crap.  There are good birth control pills that have been a godsend for many of us…you just have to find the right one. They have to be monophasic (estrogen levels don’t fluctuate like in Ortho Tricyclen).  Yasmin is a good pill to take continuously without a break. I also found out doctors need to realize that women with migraines should not be undergoing hormonal treatements such as depo provera and lupron–they are seriously hard on the women…lots of migraine problems.  Some get through the treatments okay, but we never know how they fare for the rest of their lives.  Besides…it’s only a short-term fix for a long-term problem. I don’t suffer from endo anymore.  I took some healthy approaches over the years and have been successful…thank you God.  But I have to see a hormone specialist and I stay on my birth control pills. I also realized that people have many triggers that can play into things…such as weather/barometric pressure changes, humidity levels, foods, drinks, chemicals, odors, on and on goes the list. Here’s what I did…track your cycle, track your migraines in a diary.  Look for correlations.  I have been doing that since 1993.  I love those little calendars they give out free  I have twelve years of them.  That’s how I find out when drugs interact and when I know something is coming up that might pose a problem. Sorry this is so long, thought I’d give you as much as I could. Let me know you want more or to talk on email. Michelle I didn’t need to be told, I experienced them.  I was on an infertility treatment for endometriosis back in 1993 when it was first coming out. They didn’t know at that time that women who had migraines or a history of them should not take the medication.  I developed migraines the very first month of the shots.  You took the shots once a month for six months.  It would suppress your hormones and put you in a pseudo menopausal state.  I developed migraines then and a terrible sensitivity to any hormonal changes. It changed my life forever.  Now I have migraines all the time and hormonal changes, no matter how small, give me terrible migraines. I was 31 years old at the time.  Also because of that, we had to forego any hormonal treatments that would help us have children, so we do not have them. Michelle I’m sorry about your infertility, Michelle, and even more sorry that you suffer from both Endo and migraines.  I, too, suffer from this particular double-whammy.    If my guts aren’t aching, then my head is, and a few times a month the both get going in chorus.  Not fun. I didn’t know until I read your post that Endo treatments trigger migraines.  I have had migraines all my life, even as a child, but they weren’t too frequent before I went on synarel nasal spray (6 months) then 750 ml depo-lupron shots (6 months).  Neither worked for my endo, and I did notice an increase in migraines after the last round.  We moved across the country at the same time, to a new climate, so I’ve always blamed that as the cause.  (My a-typical migraines feel like monster sinus headaches and are triggered by pressure changes in the air.)  Now I’m wondering if it was the medication that exacerbated the problem. I’d like to know anything you can tell me about the correlation between endo treatment and migraines. Jo

Response:

Jo, I think all that I can mostly tell you is that I had migraines as a child, but when I went on the pill at 17, they stopped.  I didn’t go off the pill until I was 27…then everything started.  I just got married and I had intermittent migraines and the endometriosis started.  We began seeing doctors about then.  I suffered a miscarriage and an ectopic pregnancy by 1993 when I came across a new gynecologist.  He suggested the Lupron shots. At that point I had not made a connection between my "headaches" and my cycle.  The Lupron sent me into a new life.  The migraines became unbearable and that was new to me, so treating them was very difficult.  Imitrex shots were new then, so I used them.   They didn’t offer enough help though and I was miserable.  After getting off of the Lupron, my doctor really assessed the situation and said he thought I became very sensitive and we noticed that hormonal fluctuations, no matter how small, sent me into a migraine. He was way out of his league, so he said to seek out a neurologist. I found a wonderful doctor who introduced me to DHE 45 shots.  At that time I was probably in rebound with Imitrex as it never lasted long enough becauxe my hormonal migraines were always three days.  The shots gave me a new outlook on life.  Well he retired and I had to find a new doctor. The short version of this is that I’ve learned so much about the correlation of hormones and migraines…at least for myself.  I also know there are myths floating around out there about women not going on birth control if they have migraines—pure crap.  There are good birth control pills that have been a godsend for many of us…you just have to find the right one. They have to be monophasic (estrogen levels don’t fluctuate like in Ortho Tricyclen).  Yasmin is a good pill to take continuously without a break. I also found out doctors need to realize that women with migraines should not be undergoing hormonal treatements such as depo provera and lupron–they are seriously hard on the women…lots of migraine problems.  Some get through the treatments okay, but we never know how they fare for the rest of their lives.  Besides…it’s only a short-term fix for a long-term problem. I don’t suffer from endo anymore.  I took some healthy approaches over the years and have been successful…thank you God.  But I have to see a hormone specialist and I stay on my birth control pills. I also realized that people have many triggers that can play into things…such as weather/barometric pressure changes, humidity levels, foods, drinks, chemicals, odors, on and on goes the list. Here’s what I did…track your cycle, track your migraines in a diary.  Look for correlations.  I have been doing that since 1993.  I love those little calendars they give out free  I have twelve years of them.  That’s how I find out when drugs interact and when I know something is coming up that might pose a problem. Sorry this is so long, thought I’d give you as much as I could. Let me know you want more or to talk on email. Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I didn’t need to be told, I experienced them.  I was on an infertility treatment for endometriosis back in 1993 when it was first coming out. They didn’t know at that time that women who had migraines or a history of them should not take the medication.  I developed migraines the very first month of the shots.  You took the shots once a month for six months.  It would suppress your hormones and put you in a pseudo menopausal state.  I developed migraines then and a terrible sensitivity to any hormonal changes. It changed my life forever.  Now I have migraines all the time and hormonal changes, no matter how small, give me terrible migraines. I was 31 years old at the time.  Also because of that, we had to forego any hormonal treatments that would help us have children, so we do not have them. Michelle I’m sorry about your infertility, Michelle, and even more sorry that you suffer from both Endo and migraines.  I, too, suffer from this particular double-whammy.    If my guts aren’t aching, then my head is, and a few times a month the both get going in chorus.  Not fun. I didn’t know until I read your post that Endo treatments trigger migraines.  I have had migraines all my life, even as a child, but they weren’t too frequent before I went on synarel nasal spray (6 months) then 750 ml depo-lupron shots (6 months).  Neither worked for my endo, and I did notice an increase in migraines after the last round.  We moved across the country at the same time, to a new climate, so I’ve always blamed that as the cause.  (My a-typical migraines feel like monster sinus headaches and are triggered by pressure changes in the air.)  Now I’m wondering if it was the medication that exacerbated the problem. I’d like to know anything you can tell me about the correlation between endo treatment and migraines. Jo

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I didn’t need to be told, I experienced them.  I was on an infertility treatment for endometriosis back in 1993 when it was first coming out.  They didn’t know at that time that women who had migraines or a history of them should not take the medication.  I developed migraines the very first month of the shots.  You took the shots once a month for six months.  It would suppress your hormones and put you in a pseudo menopausal state.  I developed migraines then and a terrible sensitivity to any hormonal changes. It changed my life forever.  Now I have migraines all the time and hormonal changes, no matter how small, give me terrible migraines. I was 31 years old at the time.  Also because of that, we had to forego any hormonal treatments that would help us have children, so we do not have them. Michelle

I’m sorry about your infertility, Michelle, and even more sorry that you suffer from both Endo and migraines.  I, too, suffer from this particular double-whammy.    If my guts aren’t aching, then my head is, and a few times a month the both get going in chorus.  Not fun. I didn’t know until I read your post that Endo treatments trigger migraines.  I have had migraines all my life, even as a child, but they weren’t too frequent before I went on synarel nasal spray (6 months) then 750 ml depo-lupron shots (6 months).  Neither worked for my endo, and I did notice an increase in migraines after the last round.  We moved across the country at the same time, to a new climate, so I’ve always blamed that as the cause.  (My a-typical migraines feel like monster sinus headaches and are triggered by pressure changes in the air.)  Now I’m wondering if it was the medication that exacerbated the problem. I’d like to know anything you can tell me about the correlation between endo treatment and migraines. Jo

Response:

Mother and father both suffered with migraines… my first husband even had ‘em!!   (Current husband just "thinks" away his headaches — that’s when I give him a REAL one!!)  No question that I had them so I saw a neurologist from the beginning. Liz

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am curious about something?  Who/How were you told that, you suffered from migraines? Christopher

Response:

I didn’t need to be told, I experienced them.

Me too .. I knew that I had had migraine for years, but it wasn’t until someone told me there was treatment for it that I finally went to the Montifiore Headache clinic & was finally diagnosed. That was about 39 years ago, so I’m a veteran

Response:

I was told my Dr. Fred Sheftel  at the New England Headache Treatment Center in Stamford Connecticut.   It was in 92 and I have had migraines since I was 10 and I am 65.. He got me Imitrex out of Canada in 92 before it became legal in US by the DEA…   *One*  of the best…..  The best test he ran was the Doppler showing I had less blood flow on my right side of my head in front.  Also I have scarring from severe migraines. Ronnie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am curious about something?  Who/How were you told that, you suffered from migraines? Christopher

Response:

I didn’t need to be told, I experienced them.  I was on an infertility treatment for endometriosis back in 1993 when it was first coming out.  They didn’t know at that time that women who had migraines or a history of them should not take the medication.  I developed migraines the very first month of the shots.  You took the shots once a month for six months.  It would suppress your hormones and put you in a pseudo menopausal state.  I developed migraines then and a terrible sensitivity to any hormonal changes. It changed my life forever.  Now I have migraines all the time and hormonal changes, no matter how small, give me terrible migraines. I was 31 years old at the time.  Also because of that, we had to forego any hormonal treatments that would help us have children, so we do not have them. Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am curious about something?  Who/How were you told that, you suffered from migraines? Christopher

Response:

my doctor(family practitioner) told me when I complained of sinus headaches that seemed to be getting worse. mk   I am curious about something?  Who/How were you told that, you suffered   from migraines?   Christopher

Response:

I am curious about something?  Who/How were you told that, you suffered from migraines? Christopher

Response:

Anxiety and sitting down too much

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello … I haven’t posted here before but have read quite a bit. Thanks for all the helpful info. I just wanted to bring up the subject of ’sitting down’ too much as a potential cause of certain anxiety symptoms. I have only found one page on this subject which is ; http://users.chariot.net.au/~posture/index.html I’m an artist working at my apartment and I mostly paint 9"x12" watercolour/inks sitting down and I also then spend quite a bit of time on the computer in my breaks. I’ve come to the conclusion that I have been sitting down too much and not only that but that the way I posture myself when I ink my lines is likely a cause or trigger for my anxiety. My left shoulder especially seems to be affected by that posture (and I catch myself while drawing sortof scrunching up that shoulder automatically) and I find sometimes at other times in the day that I get a mild tighter feeling in that shoulder which makes the left arm feel a bit different. In the past more than now, that feeling was a trigger for starting to think it was a heart attack symptom even though now I look at it objectively and it was pretty mild feeling (but it is amplified by concentrating on it and worrying about it). In the past week I have set up my computer so it is usable at standing height (also I can lean against a tall stool). I’ve found that I haven’t noticed my heart beat as much or any palpitations the last week. I think my general awareness of my past anxiety symptoms have diminished some from not sitting down as much. I should get a laptop so I’m not stuck in one spot Anyway , I plan to arrange my painting method so I do not have the same posture as I have been. I just am starting to be convinced that scrunching over sitting down can have an effect of causing many anxiety symptoms. I hope to somehow change whatever is making me hold my left shoulder and arm a certain way while doing watercolour or ink. I have noticed my anxiety symptoms increase in the last 2.5 years which is the period I started doing watercolours and less acrylics. The thing about the watercolours is that I sit at a table and work on something in front of me but the paper is lower and horizontal. My posture is less straight up and more leaning forward. My posture when painting acrylics on canvas is straight up since the painting is directly in front of me. I’m really thinking now that there could be a direct connection to posture with my anxiety symptoms. Does anyone have any opinions on this or information ? I’m not saying it is the only cause of anxiety feelings (I think over-perceptive senses is another ingredient ) buit it’s an idea I’m experimenting with.

Hi David,                  You are perfectly correct.  I used to do quite a stressful office job where I was sitting down all day.  Everyone I worked with agreed that when the pressure got bad you *had* to stand up.  For some reason anxiety/stress feels a lot worse when you are sitting.  There is probably some valid physiological reason for this – but I dunno what it is TJ

Response:

There is also a link between using your laptop ‘on your lap’ and infertility in men, so use a table or a desk.  I just learned this.. thought it was an interesting tidbit.

It is also better for your laptop if there are vent holes in the bottom of it to be on a table instead of in your lap. If the holes in the bottom become blocked, the laptop can overheat. — Ron P Sometimes you’re the windshield:) Sometimes you’re the bug:( Either way it is a mess!! newdoverman at yahoo dot ca

Response:

oh ok… just thought i’d share.  LOL

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am female, do not use my laptop on my lap and look forward to infertility. LOL. Meryl (parent of 3 20 somethings) There is also a link between using your laptop ‘on your lap’ and infertility in men, so use a table or a desk.  I just learned this.. thought it was an interesting tidbit. Hi David, There is a link between my anxiety and physical problems. However I do not believe the physical problems trigger the anxiety. I often need to sit at a computer and I end up with a sore neck, shoulder and back. I see an osteopath who helps me a great deal. I have 2 degenerating disks and therefore I am limited in what I can do. However, when my anxiety is up my body tenses and my physical symptoms worsen temporarily (until treatment). I had these physical symptoms way before  developed anxiety. You may want to do some research before switching to a laptop. There is a school of thought that suggests it can be harder on posture. Take care, Meryl Hello … I haven’t posted here before but have read quite a bit. Thanks for all the helpful info. I just wanted to bring up the subject of ’sitting down’ too much as a potential cause of certain anxiety symptoms. I have only found one page on this subject which is ; http://users.chariot.net.au/~posture/index.html I’m an artist working at my apartment and I mostly paint 9"x12" watercolour/inks sitting down and I also then spend quite a bit of time on the computer in my breaks. I’ve come to the conclusion that I have been sitting down too much and not only that but that the way I posture myself when I ink my lines is likely a cause or trigger for my anxiety. My left shoulder especially seems to be affected by that posture (and I catch myself while drawing sortof scrunching up that shoulder automatically) and I find sometimes at other times in the day that I get a mild tighter feeling in that shoulder which makes the left arm feel a bit different. In the past more than now, that feeling was a trigger for starting to think it was a heart attack symptom even though now I look at it objectively and it was pretty mild feeling (but it is amplified by concentrating on it and worrying about it). In the past week I have set up my computer so it is usable at standing height (also I can lean against a tall stool). I’ve found that I haven’t noticed my heart beat as much or any palpitations the last week. I think my general awareness of my past anxiety symptoms have diminished some from not sitting down as much. I should get a laptop so I’m not stuck in one spot Anyway , I plan to arrange my painting method so I do not have the same posture as I have been. I just am starting to be convinced that scrunching over sitting down can have an effect of causing many anxiety symptoms. I hope to somehow change whatever is making me hold my left shoulder and arm a certain way while doing watercolour or ink. I have noticed my anxiety symptoms increase in the last 2.5 years which is the period I started doing watercolours and less acrylics. The thing about the watercolours is that I sit at a table and work on something in front of me but the paper is lower and horizontal. My posture is less straight up and more leaning forward. My posture when painting acrylics on canvas is straight up since the painting is directly in front of me. I’m really thinking now that there could be a direct connection to posture with my anxiety symptoms. Does anyone have any opinions on this or information ? I’m not saying it is the only cause of anxiety feelings (I think over-perceptive senses is another ingredient ) buit it’s an idea I’m experimenting with.

Response:

I am female, do not use my laptop on my lap and look forward to infertility. LOL. Meryl (parent of 3 20 somethings) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is also a link between using your laptop ‘on your lap’ and infertility in men, so use a table or a desk.  I just learned this.. thought it was an interesting tidbit. Hi David, There is a link between my anxiety and physical problems. However I do not believe the physical problems trigger the anxiety. I often need to sit at a computer and I end up with a sore neck, shoulder and back. I see an osteopath who helps me a great deal. I have 2 degenerating disks and therefore I am limited in what I can do. However, when my anxiety is up my body tenses and my physical symptoms worsen temporarily (until treatment). I had these physical symptoms way before  developed anxiety. You may want to do some research before switching to a laptop. There is a school of thought that suggests it can be harder on posture. Take care, Meryl Hello … I haven’t posted here before but have read quite a bit. Thanks for all the helpful info. I just wanted to bring up the subject of ’sitting down’ too much as a potential cause of certain anxiety symptoms. I have only found one page on this subject which is ; http://users.chariot.net.au/~posture/index.html I’m an artist working at my apartment and I mostly paint 9"x12" watercolour/inks sitting down and I also then spend quite a bit of time on the computer in my breaks. I’ve come to the conclusion that I have been sitting down too much and not only that but that the way I posture myself when I ink my lines is likely a cause or trigger for my anxiety. My left shoulder especially seems to be affected by that posture (and I catch myself while drawing sortof scrunching up that shoulder automatically) and I find sometimes at other times in the day that I get a mild tighter feeling in that shoulder which makes the left arm feel a bit different. In the past more than now, that feeling was a trigger for starting to think it was a heart attack symptom even though now I look at it objectively and it was pretty mild feeling (but it is amplified by concentrating on it and worrying about it). In the past week I have set up my computer so it is usable at standing height (also I can lean against a tall stool). I’ve found that I haven’t noticed my heart beat as much or any palpitations the last week. I think my general awareness of my past anxiety symptoms have diminished some from not sitting down as much. I should get a laptop so I’m not stuck in one spot Anyway , I plan to arrange my painting method so I do not have the same posture as I have been. I just am starting to be convinced that scrunching over sitting down can have an effect of causing many anxiety symptoms. I hope to somehow change whatever is making me hold my left shoulder and arm a certain way while doing watercolour or ink. I have noticed my anxiety symptoms increase in the last 2.5 years which is the period I started doing watercolours and less acrylics. The thing about the watercolours is that I sit at a table and work on something in front of me but the paper is lower and horizontal. My posture is less straight up and more leaning forward. My posture when painting acrylics on canvas is straight up since the painting is directly in front of me. I’m really thinking now that there could be a direct connection to posture with my anxiety symptoms. Does anyone have any opinions on this or information ? I’m not saying it is the only cause of anxiety feelings (I think over-perceptive senses is another ingredient ) buit it’s an idea I’m experimenting with.

Response:

There is also a link between using your laptop ‘on your lap’ and infertility in men, so use a table or a desk.  I just learned this.. thought it was an interesting tidbit.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi David, There is a link between my anxiety and physical problems. However I do not believe the physical problems trigger the anxiety. I often need to sit at a computer and I end up with a sore neck, shoulder and back. I see an osteopath who helps me a great deal. I have 2 degenerating disks and therefore I am limited in what I can do. However, when my anxiety is up my body tenses and my physical symptoms worsen temporarily (until treatment). I had these physical symptoms way before  developed anxiety. You may want to do some research before switching to a laptop. There is a school of thought that suggests it can be harder on posture. Take care, Meryl Hello … I haven’t posted here before but have read quite a bit. Thanks for all the helpful info. I just wanted to bring up the subject of ’sitting down’ too much as a potential cause of certain anxiety symptoms. I have only found one page on this subject which is ; http://users.chariot.net.au/~posture/index.html I’m an artist working at my apartment and I mostly paint 9"x12" watercolour/inks sitting down and I also then spend quite a bit of time on the computer in my breaks. I’ve come to the conclusion that I have been sitting down too much and not only that but that the way I posture myself when I ink my lines is likely a cause or trigger for my anxiety. My left shoulder especially seems to be affected by that posture (and I catch myself while drawing sortof scrunching up that shoulder automatically) and I find sometimes at other times in the day that I get a mild tighter feeling in that shoulder which makes the left arm feel a bit different. In the past more than now, that feeling was a trigger for starting to think it was a heart attack symptom even though now I look at it objectively and it was pretty mild feeling (but it is amplified by concentrating on it and worrying about it). In the past week I have set up my computer so it is usable at standing height (also I can lean against a tall stool). I’ve found that I haven’t noticed my heart beat as much or any palpitations the last week. I think my general awareness of my past anxiety symptoms have diminished some from not sitting down as much. I should get a laptop so I’m not stuck in one spot Anyway , I plan to arrange my painting method so I do not have the same posture as I have been. I just am starting to be convinced that scrunching over sitting down can have an effect of causing many anxiety symptoms. I hope to somehow change whatever is making me hold my left shoulder and arm a certain way while doing watercolour or ink. I have noticed my anxiety symptoms increase in the last 2.5 years which is the period I started doing watercolours and less acrylics. The thing about the watercolours is that I sit at a table and work on something in front of me but the paper is lower and horizontal. My posture is less straight up and more leaning forward. My posture when painting acrylics on canvas is straight up since the painting is directly in front of me. I’m really thinking now that there could be a direct connection to posture with my anxiety symptoms. Does anyone have any opinions on this or information ? I’m not saying it is the only cause of anxiety feelings (I think over-perceptive senses is another ingredient ) buit it’s an idea I’m experimenting with.

Response:

Hi David, There is a link between my anxiety and physical problems. However I do not believe the physical problems trigger the anxiety. I often need to sit at a computer and I end up with a sore neck, shoulder and back. I see an osteopath who helps me a great deal. I have 2 degenerating disks and therefore I am limited in what I can do. However, when my anxiety is up my body tenses and my physical symptoms worsen temporarily (until treatment). I had these physical symptoms way before  developed anxiety. You may want to do some research before switching to a laptop. There is a school of thought that suggests it can be harder on posture. Take care, Meryl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello … I haven’t posted here before but have read quite a bit. Thanks for all the helpful info. I just wanted to bring up the subject of ’sitting down’ too much as a potential cause of certain anxiety symptoms. I have only found one page on this subject which is ; http://users.chariot.net.au/~posture/index.html I’m an artist working at my apartment and I mostly paint 9"x12" watercolour/inks sitting down and I also then spend quite a bit of time on the computer in my breaks. I’ve come to the conclusion that I have been sitting down too much and not only that but that the way I posture myself when I ink my lines is likely a cause or trigger for my anxiety. My left shoulder especially seems to be affected by that posture (and I catch myself while drawing sortof scrunching up that shoulder automatically) and I find sometimes at other times in the day that I get a mild tighter feeling in that shoulder which makes the left arm feel a bit different. In the past more than now, that feeling was a trigger for starting to think it was a heart attack symptom even though now I look at it objectively and it was pretty mild feeling (but it is amplified by concentrating on it and worrying about it). In the past week I have set up my computer so it is usable at standing height (also I can lean against a tall stool). I’ve found that I haven’t noticed my heart beat as much or any palpitations the last week. I think my general awareness of my past anxiety symptoms have diminished some from not sitting down as much. I should get a laptop so I’m not stuck in one spot Anyway , I plan to arrange my painting method so I do not have the same posture as I have been. I just am starting to be convinced that scrunching over sitting down can have an effect of causing many anxiety symptoms. I hope to somehow change whatever is making me hold my left shoulder and arm a certain way while doing watercolour or ink. I have noticed my anxiety symptoms increase in the last 2.5 years which is the period I started doing watercolours and less acrylics. The thing about the watercolours is that I sit at a table and work on something in front of me but the paper is lower and horizontal. My posture is less straight up and more leaning forward. My posture when painting acrylics on canvas is straight up since the painting is directly in front of me. I’m really thinking now that there could be a direct connection to posture with my anxiety symptoms. Does anyone have any opinions on this or information ? I’m not saying it is the only cause of anxiety feelings (I think over-perceptive senses is another ingredient ) buit it’s an idea I’m experimenting with.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello … I haven’t posted here before but have read quite a bit. Thanks for all the helpful info. I just wanted to bring up the subject of ’sitting down’ too much as a potential cause of certain anxiety symptoms. I have only found one page on this subject which is ; http://users.chariot.net.au/~posture/index.html I’m an artist working at my apartment and I mostly paint 9"x12" watercolour/inks sitting down and I also then spend quite a bit of time on the computer in my breaks. I’ve come to the conclusion that I have been sitting down too much and not only that but that the way I posture myself when I ink my lines is likely a cause or trigger for my anxiety. My left shoulder especially seems to be affected by that posture (and I catch myself while drawing sortof scrunching up that shoulder automatically) and I find sometimes at other times in the day that I get a mild tighter feeling in that shoulder which makes the left arm feel a bit different. In the past more than now, that feeling was a trigger for starting to think it was a heart attack symptom even though now I look at it objectively and it was pretty mild feeling (but it is amplified by concentrating on it and worrying about it). In the past week I have set up my computer so it is usable at standing height (also I can lean against a tall stool). I’ve found that I haven’t noticed my heart beat as much or any palpitations the last week. I think my general awareness of my past anxiety symptoms have diminished some from not sitting down as much. I should get a laptop so I’m not stuck in one spot Anyway , I plan to arrange my painting method so I do not have the same posture as I have been. I just am starting to be convinced that scrunching over sitting down can have an effect of causing many anxiety symptoms. I hope to somehow change whatever is making me hold my left shoulder and arm a certain way while doing watercolour or ink. I have noticed my anxiety symptoms increase in the last 2.5 years which is the period I started doing watercolours and less acrylics. The thing about the watercolours is that I sit at a table and work on something in front of me but the paper is lower and horizontal. My posture is less straight up and more leaning forward. My posture when painting acrylics on canvas is straight up since the painting is directly in front of me. I’m really thinking now that there could be a direct connection to posture with my anxiety symptoms. Does anyone have any opinions on this or information ? I’m not saying it is the only cause of anxiety feelings (I think over-perceptive senses is another ingredient ) buit it’s an idea I’m experimenting with. Hi David,                  You are perfectly correct.  I used to do quite a stressful office job where I was sitting down all day.  Everyone I worked with agreed that when the pressure got bad you *had* to stand up.  For some reason anxiety/stress feels a lot worse when you are sitting.  There is probably some valid physiological reason for this – but I dunno what it is

Weird, I always thought maybe I wasn’t getting enough blood because I was sitting. When I sit, I get confused, mind fog, slight dizziness.  Interesting insights here.

Response:

Hello … I haven’t posted here before but have read quite a bit. Thanks for all the helpful info. I just wanted to bring up the subject of ’sitting down’ too much as a potential cause of certain anxiety symptoms. I have only found one page on this subject which is ; http://users.chariot.net.au/~posture/index.html I’m an artist working at my apartment and I mostly paint 9"x12" watercolour/inks sitting down and I also then spend quite a bit of time on the computer in my breaks. I’ve come to the conclusion that I have been sitting down too much and not only that but that the way I posture myself when I ink my lines is likely a cause or trigger for my anxiety. My left shoulder especially seems to be affected by that posture (and I catch myself while drawing sortof scrunching up that shoulder automatically) and I find sometimes at other times in the day that I get a mild tighter feeling in that shoulder which makes the left arm feel a bit different. In the past more than now, that feeling was a trigger for starting to think it was a heart attack symptom even though now I look at it objectively and it was pretty mild feeling (but it is amplified by concentrating on it and worrying about it). In the past week I have set up my computer so it is usable at standing height (also I can lean against a tall stool). I’ve found that I haven’t noticed my heart beat as much or any palpitations the last week. I think my general awareness of my past anxiety symptoms have diminished some from not sitting down as much. I should get a laptop so I’m not stuck in one spot Anyway , I plan to arrange my painting method so I do not have the same posture as I have been. I just am starting to be convinced that scrunching over sitting down can have an effect of causing many anxiety symptoms. I hope to somehow change whatever is making me hold my left shoulder and arm a certain way while doing watercolour or ink. I have noticed my anxiety symptoms increase in the last 2.5 years which is the period I started doing watercolours and less acrylics. The thing about the watercolours is that I sit at a table and work on something in front of me but the paper is lower and horizontal. My posture is less straight up and more leaning forward. My posture when painting acrylics on canvas is straight up since the painting is directly in front of me. I’m really thinking now that there could be a direct connection to posture with my anxiety symptoms. Does anyone have any opinions on this or information ? I’m not saying it is the only cause of anxiety feelings (I think over-perceptive senses is another ingredient ) buit it’s an idea I’m experimenting with.

Response:

(I think over-perceptive

senses is another ingredient ) << I suspect you’re absolutely right. Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello … I haven’t posted here before but have read quite a bit. Thanks for all the helpful info. I just wanted to bring up the subject of ’sitting down’ too much as a potential cause of certain anxiety symptoms. I have only found one page on this subject which is ; http://users.chariot.net.au/~posture/index.html I’m an artist working at my apartment and I mostly paint 9"x12" watercolour/inks sitting down and I also then spend quite a bit of time on the computer in my breaks. I’ve come to the conclusion that I have been sitting down too much and not only that but that the way I posture myself when I ink my lines is likely a cause or trigger for my anxiety. My left shoulder especially seems to be affected by that posture (and I catch myself while drawing sortof scrunching up that shoulder automatically) and I find sometimes at other times in the day that I get a mild tighter feeling in that shoulder which makes the left arm feel a bit different. In the past more than now, that feeling was a trigger for starting to think it was a heart attack symptom even though now I look at it objectively and it was pretty mild feeling (but it is amplified by concentrating on it and worrying about it). In the past week I have set up my computer so it is usable at standing height (also I can lean against a tall stool). I’ve found that I haven’t noticed my heart beat as much or any palpitations the last week. I think my general awareness of my past anxiety symptoms have diminished some from not sitting down as much. I should get a laptop so I’m not stuck in one spot Anyway , I plan to arrange my painting method so I do not have the same posture as I have been. I just am starting to be convinced that scrunching over sitting down can have an effect of causing many anxiety symptoms. I hope to somehow change whatever is making me hold my left shoulder and arm a certain way while doing watercolour or ink. I have noticed my anxiety symptoms increase in the last 2.5 years which is the period I started doing watercolours and less acrylics. The thing about the watercolours is that I sit at a table and work on something in front of me but the paper is lower and horizontal. My posture is less straight up and more leaning forward. My posture when painting acrylics on canvas is straight up since the painting is directly in front of me. I’m really thinking now that there could be a direct connection to posture with my anxiety symptoms. Does anyone have any opinions on this or information ? I’m not saying it is the only cause of anxiety feelings (I think over-perceptive senses is another ingredient ) buit it’s an idea I’m experimenting with.

Response:

Breastfeeding as a method of contraception

Question:

darn Karryl >My guess is that it means nothing at all.  Although I really sympathize >with the hoping.  I had one shot of depo (in prep for a hyst that I >decided against) and I had exactly the same response you did.  But it >didn’t make any difference.  I was 49? at the time. >Speaking of which, though: I do believe I’m experiencing my first honest- >to-goodness perimenopausal symptom.  I’ve been getting brown flowers >followed by a day of bleeding then back to more brown flowers for about a >month now.  And the bleeding is fairly heavy for me.  Since the UAE I’ve >hardly needed to use a tampon, but that day of bleeding in the midst of >the brown flowers requires a couple of supers.   >Yay!  I’m becoming a crone! >Chak

http://www.elexorr.com/~soft/index.html http://www.elexorr.com/~soft/Mat/index.htm http://www.elexorr.com/~soft/cats/index.htm "If a man is a fool, you don’t train him out of being a fool by sending him to university. You merely turn him into a trained fool, ten times more dangerous." —-Desmond Bagley.

Response:

terr…@gmail.com wrote in news:1110224572.214992.93050@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com: > I don’t have the url itself handy but if you go to the Washington Post > website and click on print edition and then the health section you’ll > be able to find it.

Yup, I got it.  Thanks. Chak — In mathematics you don’t understand things. You just get used to them.   –Johann von Neumann

Response:

Chakolate <chakolateDeathToSpamm…@allvantage.com> wrote: > "Marilee" <marilee.erick…@gmail.com> wrote in > news:3936i1F52rg9sU1@individual.net: >> We moved a month after he was born, so I had to switch doctors.  At >> our first appointment, after finding out I was breast feeding he >> immediately asked what we were using for birth control.  I told him. >> He said, "Good.  A lot of new mothers think that if they’re breast >> feeding they can’t get pregnant." > I can only offer one data point on this subject: I grew up Catholic, and knew lots of Cathollic families.   > One in particular that I remember: they swore that breastfeeding, *if that was all the infant got*, > prevented pregnancy.  IOW, no water, no other feeding whatsoever.  They had 10 children, and on the > two occasions when breastfeeding had to be stopped fairly quickly, she got pregnant again right away.   > (This couple refused any sort of contraception, as directed by the Pope.)   > I know one data point is pretty useless as an argument, but I’ve always wondered if their refusal to use > any bottles at all made the breastfeeding a more effective contraceptive.  

It does, as does demand feeding, both of which are often unpopular with modern civilised women. — Chris Malcolm c…@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205 IPAB,  Informatics,  JCMB, King’s Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Response:

soft <soft63…@netscape.net> wrote: > However I still would recommend back up for anyone breastfeeding > because you become fertile before your start the periods back up.

The problem is that having a period tells you that you ovulated last month and didn’t conceive. When you start ovulating again the only way you’re going to know you’ve become fertile is after the fact, which will either be a period in a few weeks, or a pregnancy. That’s what makes lactational amenorrhea is a very risky method of contraception for an individual *woman* who is trying to plan a family, while at the same time it can be a perfectly good method of contraception for limiting the reproductive rate of a *tribe*. Confusion between the benefits of lactational amenorrhea from the viewpoint of an individual woman trying to plan a family, and the viewpoint of evolution with a tribal stastistical perspective, is one of the things which has caused a lot of the misunderstandings in this thread. Evolution doesn’t care if your personal plans get upset provided everything works out ok in the end. — Chris Malcolm c…@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205 IPAB,  Informatics,  JCMB, King’s Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Response:

On 8 Mar 2005 10:27:39 GMT, Chris Malcolm <c…@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Chakolate <chakolateDeathToSpamm…@allvantage.com> wrote: >> "Marilee" <marilee.erick…@gmail.com> wrote in >> news:3936i1F52rg9sU1@individual.net: >>> We moved a month after he was born, so I had to switch doctors.  At >>> our first appointment, after finding out I was breast feeding he >>> immediately asked what we were using for birth control.  I told him. >>> He said, "Good.  A lot of new mothers think that if they’re breast >>> feeding they can’t get pregnant." >> I can only offer one data point on this subject: I grew up Catholic, and knew lots of Cathollic families.   >> One in particular that I remember: they swore that breastfeeding, *if that was all the infant got*, >> prevented pregnancy.  IOW, no water, no other feeding whatsoever.  They had 10 children, and on the >> two occasions when breastfeeding had to be stopped fairly quickly, she got pregnant again right away.   >> (This couple refused any sort of contraception, as directed by the Pope.)   >> I know one data point is pretty useless as an argument, but I’ve always wondered if their refusal to use >> any bottles at all made the breastfeeding a more effective contraceptive.   >It does, as does demand feeding, both of which are often unpopular with >modern civilised women.

This is true – if a woman is working she is not going to be available to nurse unless she gets to take the baby to work or she works at home. And lets face it most couples need 2 incomes. Society has helped create problems with "don’t spoil" so demand feeding is spoiling because you give the baby what it wants when it wants. some husbands want to feed the baby….etc I do have another question about meno to ask. I was always a 28 day to the day person. When I started with depo provera I was told it usually takes 3 shots to stop the periods and when going off it can take 1 year for them to return. Lucky me I started the depo and had no periods after the first shot. Unlucky me when I went off I started right back up and seem to already be back to 28 day cycle, although not to the day now. I was hoping for a sign of meno at my age 49. So does this mean I am not close or does it mean anything at all? Karryl http://www.elexorr.com/~soft/index.html http://www.elexorr.com/~soft/Mat/index.htm http://www.elexorr.com/~soft/cats/index.htm "If a man is a fool, you don’t train him out of being a fool by sending him to university. You merely turn him into a trained fool, ten times more dangerous." —-Desmond Bagley.

Response:

soft <soft63…@netscape.net> wrote in news:22fs219v7g6496esq90ks6tsub5tn980um@4ax.com: > I do have another question about meno to ask. I was always a 28 day to > the day person. When I started with depo provera I was told it usually > takes 3 shots to stop the periods and when going off it can take 1 > year for them to return. Lucky me I started the depo and had no > periods after the first shot. Unlucky me when I went off I started > right back up and seem to already be back to 28 day cycle, although > not to the day now. I was hoping for a sign of meno at my age 49. So > does this mean I am not close or does it mean anything at all?

My guess is that it means nothing at all.  Although I really sympathize with the hoping.  I had one shot of depo (in prep for a hyst that I decided against) and I had exactly the same response you did.  But it didn’t make any difference.  I was 49? at the time. Speaking of which, though: I do believe I’m experiencing my first honest- to-goodness perimenopausal symptom.  I’ve been getting brown flowers followed by a day of bleeding then back to more brown flowers for about a month now.  And the bleeding is fairly heavy for me.  Since the UAE I’ve hardly needed to use a tampon, but that day of bleeding in the midst of the brown flowers requires a couple of supers.   Yay!  I’m becoming a crone! Chak — In mathematics you don’t understand things. You just get used to them.   –Johann von Neumann

Response:

On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 18:26:12 GMT, Chakolate – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<chakolateDeathToSpamm…@allvantage.com> wrote: >"Marilee" <marilee.erick…@gmail.com> wrote in >news:3936i1F52rg9sU1@individual.net: >> We moved a month after he was born, so I had to switch doctors.  At >> our first appointment, after finding out I was breast feeding he >> immediately asked what we were using for birth control.  I told him. >> He said, "Good.  A lot of new mothers think that if they’re breast >> feeding they can’t get pregnant." >I can only offer one data point on this subject: I grew up Catholic, and knew lots of Cathollic families.   >One in particular that I remember: they swore that breastfeeding, *if that was all the infant got*, >prevented pregnancy.  IOW, no water, no other feeding whatsoever.  They had 10 children, and on the >two occasions when breastfeeding had to be stopped fairly quickly, she got pregnant again right away.   >(This couple refused any sort of contraception, as directed by the Pope.)   >I know one data point is pretty useless as an argument, but I’ve always wondered if their refusal to use >any bottles at all made the breastfeeding a more effective contraceptive.  

  Yes it does. >Chak

Yep that is all the infant gets it mom, no pacifier, no water, no extra food – nothing but mom …..and you need to nurse every 2 hrs at least to keep the hormones from dropping…. Like I said this is known to delay your periods for sometime – in many cases it is at least 2 years and in mine it was a total of 3 years for 2 children. Karryl http://www.elexorr.com/~soft/index.html http://www.elexorr.com/~soft/Mat/index.htm http://www.elexorr.com/~soft/cats/index.htm "If a man is a fool, you don’t train him out of being a fool by sending him to university. You merely turn him into a trained fool, ten times more dangerous." —-Desmond Bagley.

Response:

Stud Fam Plann. 1985 May-Jun;16(3):154-63.      Related Articles, Links     Breastfeeding, contraception, and birth intervals in developing countries.     Smith DP.     Numerous studies have demonstrated a strong correlation between breastfeeding and the duration of amenorrhea and between breastfeeding and the birth interval at the individual level. In the present study, both these correlations are shown to hold at the national level, in developing countries. In countries where the median durations of breastfeeding are relatively long or the rates of contraceptive use are relatively high, median birth intervals are longer than in countries where the median breastfeeding durations are shorter and contraceptive use is less widespread. In countries where fertility is moderate or high, however, the incidence of very short birth intervals is higher when median breastfeeding durations are relatively short. The findings suggest that contraception as it is presently practiced is an inadequate substitute for breastfeeding.     PIP: Previous studies have shown, on an individual level, a correlation between breastfeeding with duration of amenorrhea and the birth interval. This study investigates these relationships at a national level. Birth interval effects of breastfeeding were evaluated through mathematical simulation of birth interval distributions and by regression analysis of women’s individual closed birth interval distributions usins data from the 38-country World Fertility sample. Country averages were used to compare breastfeeding durations with birth interval duration and to evaluate birth interval effects from breastfeeding or contraception. Results showed that at the county as well as individual level, breastfeeding and breastfeeding/contraception durations are positively correlated with the length of the interval between births. The strongest correlation was shown for amenorrhea and breastfeeding. The implication is that a decline in breastfeeding and breastfeeding durations in developing countries will result in shorter intervals and hence, larger families if unchecked by contraception. Additionally, shorter terms of breastfeeding are correlated with higher frequencies of birth intervals under 18 months. http://www.elexorr.com/~soft/index.html http://www.elexorr.com/~soft/Mat/index.htm http://www.elexorr.com/~soft/cats/index.htm "If a man is a fool, you don’t train him out of being a fool by sending him to university. You merely turn him into a trained fool, ten times more dangerous." —-Desmond Bagley.

Response:

"Terri" <terr…@vverizon.com> wrote in message

news:2Y4Xd.66807$uc.5092@trnddc08… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Marilee wrote: >> "How Old is Too Old? >> According to the Mayo Clinic, a woman’s fertility peaks between the ages >> of >> 20 and 24. However, fertility rates remain relatively constant through >> the >> early 30s, after which they begin to decline: >> At age 30 to 35, fertility is 15 to 20 percent below maximum. From age 35 >> to >> 39, the decrease is 25 to 50 percent. From 40 to 45, the decrease is 50 >> to >> 95 percent." > And that’s fertility as in becoming pregnant. The likeliehood of carrying > a pregnancy to term at 40 and over without medical intervention is very > low. Rates of miscarriage skyrocket in this older age group.

Yes.  I didn’t look for cites for that, but I know we’ve talked here about losing the ability to sustain a pregnancy when we’re older. Marilee

Response:

On 7 Mar 2005 13:45:38 -0800, terr…@gmail.com wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->soft wrote: >> >As I posted earlier – women who have real life experience don’t buy >> >into this myth. Neither do doctors who know that women are concerned >> >about pregnancy. I also used contraception immediately after the >births >> >of both of my children even though I was breastfeeding >"exclusively." >> OK I guess I will  have speak up  - I did breastfeed and I used it >for >> birth control – it does in fact work >Maybe it worked for you, or maybe you were relatively infertile. >Non-contracepting women tend to have a pretty clearly defined >individual birth interval. I know a lot of women who never used >contraception and who had a baby every 3 years or even every 5 years >without breastfeeding for any of that time.  Which goes back to my >original staement – women’s fertility is extremely variable. That’s >true now and there’s no reason to suppose that it wasn’t true in >prehistoric times. 1 in 6 women has primary infertility and many more >have secondary infertility.

As I stated before I did not have a period for 3 years after my second child or my 3rd. Those were the only 2 I breastfed. I had no trouble getting pregnant because after my first child (who I did not breastfeed) I had 3 miscarriages, 1 about 1 year after I had him (but was using the pill until I went off the pill and got pregnant, I had a second misscarriage about 8 months later, and the third one about 3 months after. I got pregnant easy – it was staying pregnant that was my problem. However I still would recommend back up for anyone breastfeeding because you become fertile before your start the periods back up. That leaves you unprotected if your not wanting to get pregnant. There is no harm in being extra careful as apposed to not careful enough. Karryl http://www.elexorr.com/~soft/index.html http://www.elexorr.com/~soft/Mat/index.htm http://www.elexorr.com/~soft/cats/index.htm "If a man is a fool, you don’t train him out of being a fool by sending him to university. You merely turn him into a trained fool, ten times more dangerous." —-Desmond Bagley.

Response:

"Chakolate" <chakolateDeathToSpamm…@allvantage.com> wrote in message

news:1110219972.866f4a304b64186f7ee15c7d2df94f7e@bubbanews… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Marilee" <marilee.erick…@gmail.com> wrote in > news:3936i1F52rg9sU1@individual.net: >> We moved a month after he was born, so I had to switch doctors.  At >> our first appointment, after finding out I was breast feeding he >> immediately asked what we were using for birth control.  I told him. >> He said, "Good.  A lot of new mothers think that if they’re breast >> feeding they can’t get pregnant." > I can only offer one data point on this subject: I grew up Catholic, and > knew lots of Cathollic families. > One in particular that I remember: they swore that breastfeeding, *if that > was all the infant got*, > prevented pregnancy.  IOW, no water, no other feeding whatsoever.  They > had 10 children, and on the > two occasions when breastfeeding had to be stopped fairly quickly, she got > pregnant again right away. > (This couple refused any sort of contraception, as directed by the Pope.) > I know one data point is pretty useless as an argument, but I’ve always > wondered if their refusal to use > any bottles at all made the breastfeeding a more effective contraceptive.

I know several women who got pregnant while breastfeeding. Some of them were pregnant again right away (pregnant at their 6 wk. checkup following delivery) and others weren’t pregnant until the breastfeeding infant was closer to a year old. Gwen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Chak > — > In mathematics you don’t understand things. You just get used to them. >  –Johann von Neumann

Response:

"Marilee" <marilee.erick…@gmail.com> wrote in news:393njtF5vfqo8U1@individual.net: > "Quite well".  Hmmmmmm.   How well?  How old was she when she had her > first and last?  Were there any unsuccessful pregnancies, or was she > so amazingly fortunate that every single one of hers resulted in a > live birth?

She was, in fact, remarkably fertile.  She got married at 18, started cranking out kids at 19.  Two sets of twins, so eight birthings.  (Is that the right word?)   All her kids were three to three and a half years apart, except for the two following the interrupted breastfeedings.   I always thought the Pope could use her for a poster woman for so many of his policies.  :-p Babysitting there was fun, though.  Any corner you looked in had a bed or a crib with a kid in it.  The older children helped with the younger ones, and they were mostly quite well behaved.  I suppose it would have to be that way, or it would be complete chaos.   > When I had my miscarriage–I got pregnant accidentally in spite of an > IUD–my doctor assured me of two things:  1) The miscarriage, because > of the month gap between IUD extraction and the actual cessation of > pregnancy, was likely not caused by the IUD or its removal and 2)  I’d > already had 3 successful pregnancies and odds were that I’d lose a > baby at some subsequent point if I continued to get pregnant. > I have two sisters, each with 4 children.  They each had a miscarriage > (early enough for each of us that they’re more appropriately termed > ’spontaneous abortion’), too.

I thought the article on miscarriages recently posted was fascinating, but Firefox crashed before I could finish reading it.  Does anybody have the URL again, please? Chak — In mathematics you don’t understand things. You just get used to them.   –Johann von Neumann

Response:

I don’t have the url itself handy but if you go to the Washington Post website and click on print edition and then the health section you’ll be able to find it. Chakolate wrote: > "Marilee" <marilee.erick…@gmail.com> wrote in > news:393njtF5vfqo8U1@individual.net: > > "Quite well".  Hmmmmmm.   How well?  How old was she when she had her > > first and last?  Were there any unsuccessful pregnancies, or was she > > so amazingly fortunate that every single one of hers resulted in a > > live birth? > She was, in fact, remarkably fertile.  She got married at 18, started

cranking out kids at 19.  Two sets > of twins, so eight birthings.

8 pregnancies. Not a lot in a woman who’s not using contraception meaning she was probably not anywhere nearly as fertile as you might think. 8 pregnancies in 35-odd reproductive years isn’t a lot. (Is that the right word?)   All her kids were three to three and a half years > apart, except for the two following the interrupted breastfeedings. > I always thought the Pope could use her for a poster woman for so

many of his policies.  :-p > Babysitting there was fun, though.  Any corner you looked in had a

bed or a crib with a kid in it.  The > older children helped with the younger ones, and they were mostly

quite well behaved.  I suppose it – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> would have to be that way, or it would be complete chaos. > > When I had my miscarriage–I got pregnant accidentally in spite of an > > IUD–my doctor assured me of two things:  1) The miscarriage, because > > of the month gap between IUD extraction and the actual cessation of > > pregnancy, was likely not caused by the IUD or its removal and 2) I’d > > already had 3 successful pregnancies and odds were that I’d lose a > > baby at some subsequent point if I continued to get pregnant. > > I have two sisters, each with 4 children.  They each had a miscarriage > > (early enough for each of us that they’re more appropriately termed > > ’spontaneous abortion’), too. > I thought the article on miscarriages recently posted was

fascinating, but Firefox crashed before I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> could finish reading it.  Does anybody have the URL again, please? > Chak > — > In mathematics you don’t understand things. You just get used to them. >   –Johann von Neumann

Response:

>As I posted earlier – women who have real life experience don’t buy >into this myth. Neither do doctors who know that women are concerned >about pregnancy. I also used contraception immediately after the births >of both of my children even though I was breastfeeding "exclusively."

OK I guess I will  have speak up  - I did breastfeed and I used it for birth control – it does in fact work I had no periods for 3 years and did not get pregnant after either birth. I saw this method work for many woman thru my breastfeeding conseling days. I saw it fail for those who did not follow the specific methods of postponing periods and conception. The problem is you have to breastfeed in a certian way for it to be most effective and many women do not want to do that. And once the periods return you are fertile – which can leave you no warnign and fertile right before the first period. I trusted the method but the fact is if you DO NOT want to get pregnant then you should use something else for backup. I don’t think that anyone not wanting another child should only use breastfeeding because of the results changing person to person. Karryl http://www.elexorr.com/~soft/index.html http://www.elexorr.com/~soft/Mat/index.htm http://www.elexorr.com/~soft/cats/index.htm "If a man is a fool, you don’t train him out of being a fool by sending him to university. You merely turn him into a trained fool, ten times more dangerous." —-Desmond Bagley.

Response:

My non-contracepting mother had 13 pregnancies beginning at age 21 and ending at 39. She was fully post menopausal at 52. That means she had 11-13 years of regular periods. She did not exclusively breastfeed any of her children. She says she’s always been puzzled that her childbearing ended so abruptly and at a relatively young age. She had 11 live births almost all 18-24 months apart. One pregnancy ended at 7 months with a stillbirth and a second one ended at 4 months with a miscarriage. That number of 13 doesn’t include any pregnancies that ended before she knew she was pregnant. None of my sisters (6) or sisters-in-law on my side (4) have had miscarriages that they know of. I’m not sure about my sisters in law on my husband’s side. We think we’ve been extraordinarily lucky. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Marilee wrote: > "Chakolate" <chakolateDeathToSpamm…@allvantage.com> wrote in message > news:1110221397.37b8c6a2f377a2d570b6c1e6d5fedd86@bubbanews… > > "Peahen" <pattie.ok…@gmail.com> wrote in > > news:d0i85p$mlb$1@vegh.ks.cc.utah.edu: > >> Unless they were planned, I’d say the 10 kids says a lot about the > >> effectiveness of breastfeeding as contraception. > > Not at all.  This is a Catholic family, remember, that follows church > > teachings.  But they were able to > > space out the births quite well except for the two mentioned. > > Chak > "Quite well".  Hmmmmmm.   How well?  How old was she when she had her first > and last?  Were there any unsuccessful pregnancies, or was she so amazingly > fortunate that every single one of hers resulted in a live birth? > When I had my miscarriage–I got pregnant accidentally in spite of an > IUD–my doctor assured me of two things:  1) The miscarriage, because of the > month gap between IUD extraction and the actual cessation of pregnancy, was > likely not caused by the IUD or its removal and 2)  I’d already had 3 > successful pregnancies and odds were that I’d lose a baby at some subsequent > point if I continued to get pregnant. > I have two sisters, each with 4 children.  They each had a miscarriage > (early enough for each of us that they’re more appropriately termed > ’spontaneous abortion’), too. > I guess what I’m trying to point out, here, is that it’s easy to look at a > family and count the number of ~children~, but it’s impossible to know the > number of pregnancies. > Marilee

Response:

"Marilee" <marilee.erick…@gmail.com> wrote in news:3936i1F52rg9sU1@individual.net: > We moved a month after he was born, so I had to switch doctors.  At > our first appointment, after finding out I was breast feeding he > immediately asked what we were using for birth control.  I told him. > He said, "Good.  A lot of new mothers think that if they’re breast > feeding they can’t get pregnant."

I can only offer one data point on this subject: I grew up Catholic, and knew lots of Cathollic families.   One in particular that I remember: they swore that breastfeeding, *if that was all the infant got*, prevented pregnancy.  IOW, no water, no other feeding whatsoever.  They had 10 children, and on the two occasions when breastfeeding had to be stopped fairly quickly, she got pregnant again right away.   (This couple refused any sort of contraception, as directed by the Pope.)   I know one data point is pretty useless as an argument, but I’ve always wondered if their refusal to use any bottles at all made the breastfeeding a more effective contraceptive.   Chak — In mathematics you don’t understand things. You just get used to them.   –Johann von Neumann

Response:

"Peahen" <pattie.ok…@gmail.com> wrote in news:d0i85p$mlb$1@vegh.ks.cc.utah.edu: > Unless they were planned, I’d say the 10 kids says a lot about the > effectiveness of breastfeeding as contraception.

Not at all.  This is a Catholic family, remember, that follows church teachings.  But they were able to space out the births quite well except for the two mentioned.   Chak — In mathematics you don’t understand things. You just get used to them.   –Johann von Neumann

Response:

"Chakolate" <chakolateDeathToSpamm…@allvantage.com> wrote in message

news:1110221397.37b8c6a2f377a2d570b6c1e6d5fedd86@bubbanews… > "Peahen" <pattie.ok…@gmail.com> wrote in > news:d0i85p$mlb$1@vegh.ks.cc.utah.edu: >> Unless they were planned, I’d say the 10 kids says a lot about the >> effectiveness of breastfeeding as contraception. > Not at all.  This is a Catholic family, remember, that follows church > teachings.  But they were able to > space out the births quite well except for the two mentioned. > Chak

"Quite well".  Hmmmmmm.   How well?  How old was she when she had her first and last?  Were there any unsuccessful pregnancies, or was she so amazingly fortunate that every single one of hers resulted in a live birth? When I had my miscarriage–I got pregnant accidentally in spite of an IUD–my doctor assured me of two things:  1) The miscarriage, because of the month gap between IUD extraction and the actual cessation of pregnancy, was likely not caused by the IUD or its removal and 2)  I’d already had 3 successful pregnancies and odds were that I’d lose a baby at some subsequent point if I continued to get pregnant. I have two sisters, each with 4 children.  They each had a miscarriage (early enough for each of us that they’re more appropriately termed ’spontaneous abortion’), too. I guess what I’m trying to point out, here, is that it’s easy to look at a family and count the number of ~children~, but it’s impossible to know the number of pregnancies. Marilee

Response:

"Chakolate" <chakolateDeathToSpamm…@allvantage.com> wrote in message

news:1110219972.866f4a304b64186f7ee15c7d2df94f7e@bubbanews… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Marilee" <marilee.erick…@gmail.com> wrote in > news:3936i1F52rg9sU1@individual.net: >> We moved a month after he was born, so I had to switch doctors.  At >> our first appointment, after finding out I was breast feeding he >> immediately asked what we were using for birth control.  I told him. >> He said, "Good.  A lot of new mothers think that if they’re breast >> feeding they can’t get pregnant." > I can only offer one data point on this subject: I grew up Catholic, and > knew lots of Cathollic families. > One in particular that I remember: they swore that breastfeeding, *if that > was all the infant got*, > prevented pregnancy.  IOW, no water, no other feeding whatsoever.  They > had 10 children, and on the > two occasions when breastfeeding had to be stopped fairly quickly, she got > pregnant again right away. > (This couple refused any sort of contraception, as directed by the Pope.) > I know one data point is pretty useless as an argument, but I’ve always > wondered if their refusal to use > any bottles at all made the breastfeeding a more effective contraceptive. > Chak

Unless they were planned, I’d say the 10 kids says a lot about the effectiveness of breastfeeding as contraception.

Response:

"Chakolate" <chakolateDeathToSpamm…@allvantage.com> wrote in message

news:1110219972.866f4a304b64186f7ee15c7d2df94f7e@bubbanews… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Marilee" <marilee.erick…@gmail.com> wrote in > news:3936i1F52rg9sU1@individual.net: >> We moved a month after he was born, so I had to switch doctors.  At >> our first appointment, after finding out I was breast feeding he >> immediately asked what we were using for birth control.  I told him. >> He said, "Good.  A lot of new mothers think that if they’re breast >> feeding they can’t get pregnant." > I can only offer one data point on this subject: I grew up Catholic, and > knew lots of Cathollic families. > One in particular that I remember: they swore that breastfeeding, *if that > was all the infant got*, > prevented pregnancy.  IOW, no water, no other feeding whatsoever.  They > had 10 children, and on the > two occasions when breastfeeding had to be stopped fairly quickly, she got > pregnant again right away.

Catholics also swear by the rhythm method.  It’s not reliable, either.  ;) Marilee

Response:

Chakolate <chakolateDeathToSpamm…@allvantage.com> wrote in news:1110219972.866f4a304b64186f7ee15c7d2df94f7e@bubbanews: > and knew lots of Cathollic families

Also some Catholic ones.  Sigh. — In mathematics you don’t understand things. You just get used to them.   –Johann von Neumann

Response:

The article most frequently cited in support of the statement that *exclusive* breastfeeding is an effective (98%) method of contraception in women for the first six months after birth is the Bellagio Conference Consensus Report. First this particular conference had a rather radical political agenda which makes all of its reports somewhat suspect. The one on breasfeeding is totally worthless given that the studies used to make the claim did not include sexual intercourse during this 6 month period as a variable. See: http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:0eB4P_pTXBcJ:htc.anu.edu.au/pdfs… and pay special atention to note # 2 Abstinence is a 100% effective contraceptive. Many cultures today have taboos and rules about sexual intercourse with new and lactating mothers. Many of these probably sprang from observation that women who had sex in that critical first six months were more likely to become pregnant again with serious deleterious effects on the older infant. There are reasons other than cultural taboos that might make a lactating women a less desireable sexual partner. She is less available – her baby needs much of her time. Her body may be less pleasing. She may have no interest in sexual activity and reject her partner. The reasons aren’t really important though in the context of this report. What is clear is that a conclusion about contraception that failed to use frequency of sexual intercourse as a variable is fatally flawed.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Marilee wrote: > <terr…@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:1110203478.504764.29450@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com… > > The article most frequently cited in support of the statement that > > *exclusive* breastfeeding is an effective (98%) method of contraception > > in women for the first six months after birth is the Bellagio > > Conference Consensus Report. > > First this particular conference had a rather radical political agenda > > which makes all of its reports somewhat suspect. The one on > > breasfeeding is totally worthless given that the studies used to make > > the claim did not include sexual intercourse during this 6 month period > > as a variable. > > See:

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:0eB4P_pTXBcJ:htc.anu.edu.au/pdfs… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > and pay special atention to note # 2 > > Abstinence is a 100% effective contraceptive. Many cultures today have > > taboos and rules about sexual intercourse with new and lactating > > mothers. Many of these probably sprang from observation that women who > > had sex in that critical first six months were more likely to become > > pregnant again with serious deleterious effects on the older infant. > > There are reasons other than cultural taboos that might make a > > lactating women a less desireable sexual partner. She is less available > > – her baby needs much of her time. Her body may be less pleasing. She > > may have no interest in sexual activity and reject her partner. > > The reasons aren’t really important though in the context of this > > report. What is clear is that a conclusion about contraception that > > failed to use frequency of sexual intercourse as a variable is fatally > > flawed. > You think?  :) > After I had my first baby (30 years ago next month), one of the first things > my first doctor said to me after he was born was "Don’t believe that you > can’t get pregnant while you’re breast feeding him.  Use an additional > method of contraception." > We moved a month after he was born, so I had to switch doctors.  At our > first appointment, after finding out I was breast feeding he immediately > asked what we were using for birth control.  I told him.  He said, "Good.  A > lot of new mothers think that if they’re breast feeding they can’t get > pregnant." > Marilee, who actually breast fed….

As I posted earlier – women who have real life experience don’t buy into this myth. Neither do doctors who know that women are concerned about pregnancy. I also used contraception immediately after the births of both of my children even though I was breastfeeding "exclusively." I actually find this 98% claim highly amusing. makes about as much sense as claiming that entering a convent is a highly reliable methiod of contraception. or, one of my favorites from the Plano, Texas Health class on AIDS – marriage will prevent AIDS.

Response:

<terr…@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1110203478.504764.29450@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The article most frequently cited in support of the statement that > *exclusive* breastfeeding is an effective (98%) method of contraception > in women for the first six months after birth is the Bellagio > Conference Consensus Report. > First this particular conference had a rather radical political agenda > which makes all of its reports somewhat suspect. The one on > breasfeeding is totally worthless given that the studies used to make > the claim did not include sexual intercourse during this 6 month period > as a variable. > See: > http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:0eB4P_pTXBcJ:htc.anu.edu.au/pdfs… > and pay special atention to note # 2 > Abstinence is a 100% effective contraceptive. Many cultures today have > taboos and rules about sexual intercourse with new and lactating > mothers. Many of these probably sprang from observation that women who > had sex in that critical first six months were more likely to become > pregnant again with serious deleterious effects on the older infant. > There are reasons other than cultural taboos that might make a > lactating women a less desireable sexual partner. She is less available > – her baby needs much of her time. Her body may be less pleasing. She > may have no interest in sexual activity and reject her partner. > The reasons aren’t really important though in the context of this > report. What is clear is that a conclusion about contraception that > failed to use frequency of sexual intercourse as a variable is fatally > flawed.

You think?  :) After I had my first baby (30 years ago next month), one of the first things my first doctor said to me after he was born was "Don’t believe that you can’t get pregnant while you’re breast feeding him.  Use an additional method of contraception." We moved a month after he was born, so I had to switch doctors.  At our first appointment, after finding out I was breast feeding he immediately asked what we were using for birth control.  I told him.  He said, "Good.  A lot of new mothers think that if they’re breast feeding they can’t get pregnant." Marilee, who actually breast fed….

Response:

This woman exercised a lot.

Question:

http://www.pamfranklin.com/5-3-2003.JPG

I don’t think "women" like that can develop that kind of muscle without pharmaceutical help; naturally women don’t bulk up when working out, as that requires hormones they just don’t have (at least, not in the right quantities). So, I would suspect "she" at least used a steroid or testosterone based drug of some kind.  From a purely sexist POV (no apology given), despite the well developed jugs, it would just be too much like fucking a bloke; that look does nothing for me whatsoever — Succorso

Response:

http://www.pamfranklin.com/5-3-2003.JPG

Yeah.  There are lots of women bodybuilders out there who look like that.  Like male bodybuilders, they look pretty normal when they’re not flexing.  It’s hard for a woman to get that much muscle and be lean enough for it to show.  (For that matter, it’s not easy for anyone.  Drugs help.)  Bodybuilders follow a pretty difficult diet cycle of gaining and then cutting.  I doubt it’s all that good for one, but don’t really know. Chris 262/130s/130s started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

Response:

Right. Her website claims she dieted down to 7% body fat. I don’t believe that number as I don’t believe some of the measurements she posted but her bodyfat certainly is low.

Anything below 15-18% or so for a woman would start to create serious potential problems such as osteoporosis, infertility, amenorrhea, low blood pressure and fainting.  7% body fat would even create problems for men.  Bear in mind that a woman of twenty years old would be within the acceptable range at anywhere between 20 and 24% body fat. Moira, the Faerie Godmother

Response:

Right. Her website claims she dieted down to 7% body fat. I don’t believe that number as I don’t believe some of the measurements she posted but her bodyfat certainly is low. She has a website that can be accessed by any one of her peers and competitors. It would be rather stupid of her to make a claim that would damage her credibility in her field of endeavor. I would say that if she claims 7%, then it is probably pretty accurate.

I don’t think fudging on bodyfat numbers would reduce her credibility especially among her competitors. Bill Pearl claimed to have 20+ inch arms. Exaggeration is par for the course in bodybuilding. It looks to me like she has size along with definition. I browsed her site and didn’t see any claims of being a "natural" bodybuilder so I would assume she was drug-assisted at least sometime during her career. She didn’t refute something that wasn’t an issue so you assume that she is is guilty? That’s a bit much.

I don’t assume that she is guilty. In the event she competed in there were no rules against using performance-enhancing drugs. I noticed that you haven’t posted in the past few days that you are not a pedophile, so, out of curiosity, how many little boys have you raped this week?

That’s fair. But in the sport of bodybuilding most "natural" athletes make it a point to say so. And they compete in "natural" events. — Matthew 185/177/160

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t think "women" like that can develop that kind of muscle without pharmaceutical help; naturally women don’t bulk up when working out, as that requires hormones they just don’t have (at least, not in the right quantities). So, I would suspect "she" at least used a steroid or testosterone based drug of some kind. For most women, this is true. But there are genetic outliers. I wanted to verify a few facts before I posted this example. Cheryl Hayworth has been a drug-tested athlete at least since she was 15 and she can lift more than most college football players. She’s kind of a genetic outlier too, I think .  Apparently she just walked into a gym one day as a pre-teen and benched 225

Wow! or so.  I’ve met her, by the way, when I went to the masters nationals in Savannah last year — a really cool person.

Cool! She most certainly is a genetic outlier (I imagine most Olypians are) and that was the point of my post. I think it’s pretty safe to say that she has not used performance-enhancing drugs and yet she has certainly "bulked up."

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.pamfranklin.com/5-3-2003.JPG Personally, I think that women who have such defined physiques like this woman (and you have to remember she is a ‘professional bodybuilder’ not the average woman)still tend to perpetrate the ongoing myth that if you’re a woman and pick up a weight you will ‘bulk up’. Of course not so. But I think a MUCH better example of what weightlifting can do would be a person like Mina Hobbi, who lost 85lbs, lifted weights and became a new person (as seen also on Oprah the other day): http://www.minahobbi.com/ <<joni *as Oprah said, ‘Amazing!’

Well, I lift weights, have lost 129 lbs., and am not "bulky".  And I’m not selling anything .   Chris 262/130s/130s started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.pamfranklin.com/5-3-2003.JPG I don’t think "women" like that can develop that kind of muscle without pharmaceutical help; naturally women don’t bulk up when working out, as that requires hormones they just don’t have (at least, not in the right quantities). So, I would suspect "she" at least used a steroid or testosterone based drug of some kind. For most women, this is true. But there are genetic outlyers.  From a purely sexist POV (no apology given), despite the well developed jugs, it would just be too much like fucking a bloke; that look does nothing for me whatsoever Not the most attractive look to me either, but I still admire it for the discipline it took to acheive. I just kind of look at it as a sport — not my choice, but a valid choice.  And from my own training I recognize what it takes to get there. Do you also consider yourself a "bodybuilder"? (going for muscle size and definition)? Or are you training for strength, which is what, I believe, you said many times?

I am definitely not a bodybuilder.  It’s fun to have some visible muscle, but it’s not why I do it.  It’s the strength aspect that I enjoy.  This may seem a somewhat subtle distinction to those who don’t do either, but they’re really pretty distinct sports.  And the lifting programs as well as dietary programs are quite dissimilar. There is, by the way, a bodybuilding-related sport for women called fitness competition.  All those models in the women’s fitness magazines do this stuff.  These women do bodybuilding but aren’t going for the heavily-muscled look — more sort of proportional.  They compete in fitness events — obstacle courses, aerobic dance, and that sort of thing — as well as in "figure" modeling.  Many of them are ex-gymnasts.  This one is a trainer at our gym and a friend of mine: http://www.womenstrifitness.com/photos/displayimage.php?album=topn&ca… She’s also on the cover of the latest "Muscle and Fitness Hers" magazine: http://www.muscleandfitnesshers.com/ Clearly Gail has a lot of definition, but it wouldn’t be that obvious when she’s not posing.  She’s quite a small girl — probably a size 2 or so.  She has a just-about-perfect body, and is also extremely fit (She’s also about 23 years old.) Chris Chris 262/130s/130s started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t think "women" like that can develop that kind of muscle without pharmaceutical help; naturally women don’t bulk up when working out, as that requires hormones they just don’t have (at least, not in the right quantities). So, I would suspect "she" at least used a steroid or testosterone based drug of some kind. For most women, this is true. But there are genetic outlyers. I wanted to verify a few facts before I posted this example. Cheryl Hayworth has been a drug-tested athlete at least since she was 15 and she can lift more than most college football players.

She’s kind of a genetic outlier too, I think .  Apparently she just walked into a gym one day as a pre-teen and benched 225 or so.  I’ve met her, by the way, when I went to the masters nationals in Savannah last year — a really cool person. Chris 262/130s/130s started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

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http://www.pamfranklin.com/5-3-2003.JPG

Personally, I think that women who have such defined physiques like this woman (and you have to remember she is a ‘professional bodybuilder’ not the average woman)still tend to perpetrate the ongoing myth that if you’re a woman and pick up a weight you will ‘bulk up’. Of course not so. But I think a MUCH better example of what weightlifting can do would be a person like Mina Hobbi, who lost 85lbs, lifted weights and became a new person (as seen also on Oprah the other day): http://www.minahobbi.com/ <<joni *as Oprah said, ‘Amazing!’

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I don’t think "women" like that can develop that kind of muscle without pharmaceutical help; naturally women don’t bulk up when working out, as that requires hormones they just don’t have (at least, not in the right quantities). So, I would suspect "she" at least used a steroid or testosterone based drug of some kind. For most women, this is true. But there are genetic outlyers.

I wanted to verify a few facts before I posted this example. Cheryl Hayworth has been a drug-tested athlete at least since she was 15 and she can lift more than most college football players. — Matthew 185/177/160

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.pamfranklin.com/5-3-2003.JPG I don’t think "women" like that can develop that kind of muscle without pharmaceutical help; naturally women don’t bulk up when working out, as that requires hormones they just don’t have (at least, not in the right quantities). So, I would suspect "she" at least used a steroid or testosterone based drug of some kind. For most women, this is true. But there are genetic outlyers.  From a purely sexist POV (no apology given), despite the well developed jugs, it would just be too much like fucking a bloke; that look does nothing for me whatsoever Not the most attractive look to me either, but I still admire it for the discipline it took to acheive.

I just kind of look at it as a sport — not my choice, but a valid choice.  And from my own training I recognize what it takes to get there. Chris 262/130s/130s started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

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Well Ig didn’t post the best pic. Here is the back double bicep from contest: http://www.pamfranklin.com/photogallery/photo9658/Masters%202.jpg

Wow, yeah! It looks to me like she has size along with definition. I browsed her site and didn’t see any claims of being a "natural" bodybuilder so I would assume she was drug-assisted at least sometime during her career. But even then, like you say, she wouldn’t look odd if you saw her in clothes walking down the street.

I think this is something a lot of people don’t realize about bodybuilders when they see posing pictures.  Most of these people look pretty normal in real life. Chris 262/130s/130s started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

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http://www.pamfranklin.com/5-3-2003.JPG I don’t think "women" like that can develop that kind of muscle without pharmaceutical help; naturally women don’t bulk up when working out, as that requires hormones they just don’t have (at least, not in the right quantities). So, I would suspect "she" at least used a steroid or testosterone based drug of some kind.

For most women, this is true. But there are genetic outlyers.  From a purely sexist POV (no apology given), despite the well developed jugs, it would just be too much like fucking a bloke; that look does nothing for me whatsoever

Not the most attractive look to me either, but I still admire it for the discipline it took to acheive. — Matthew 185/177/160

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http://www.pamfranklin.com/5-3-2003.JPG

With serious plastic surgery to go alone with it.   She has alot of money invested into that body, that’s for sure.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.pamfranklin.com/5-3-2003.JPG Yeah.  There are lots of women bodybuilders out there who look like that.  Like male bodybuilders, they look pretty normal when they’re not flexing.  It’s hard for a woman to get that much muscle and be lean enough for it to show.  (For that matter, it’s not easy for anyone.  Drugs help.)  Bodybuilders follow a pretty difficult diet cycle of gaining and then cutting. It must require a lot of work, even with drugs. I doubt it’s all that good for one, but don’t really know. I am curious if, in fact, having "too much" muscle is or is not healthful. Well, I think it’s the diet cycling that’s unhealthful — and of course some of the drugs some bodybuilders use.  I don’t think I’ve heard any evidence that having larger amounts of muscle is harmful.

Right. Her website claims she dieted down to 7% body fat. I don’t believe that number as I don’t believe some of the measurements she posted but her bodyfat certainly is low. In general muscle development, if done naturally, is somewhat self-limiting.  I don’t think it would be possible to develop naturally and cause oneself harm doing so. The woman in the picture probably doesn’t have a whole lot more muscle than lots of other women athletes, really; what she has is lower bodyfat.  Low bodyfat levels can be unhealthy in women.

Well Ig didn’t post the best pic. Here is the back double bicep from contest: http://www.pamfranklin.com/photogallery/photo9658/Masters%202.jpg It looks to me like she has size along with definition. I browsed her site and didn’t see any claims of being a "natural" bodybuilder so I would assume she was drug-assisted at least sometime during her career. But even then, like you say, she wouldn’t look odd if you saw her in clothes walking down the street. — Matthew 185/177/160

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.pamfranklin.com/5-3-2003.JPG Yeah.  There are lots of women bodybuilders out there who look like that.  Like male bodybuilders, they look pretty normal when they’re not flexing.  It’s hard for a woman to get that much muscle and be lean enough for it to show.  (For that matter, it’s not easy for anyone.  Drugs help.)  Bodybuilders follow a pretty difficult diet cycle of gaining and then cutting. It must require a lot of work, even with drugs. I doubt it’s all that good for one, but don’t really know. I am curious if, in fact, having "too much" muscle is or is not healthful.

Well, I think it’s the diet cycling that’s unhealthful — and of course some of the drugs some bodybuilders use.  I don’t think I’ve heard any evidence that having larger amounts of muscle is harmful. In general muscle development, if done naturally, is somewhat self-limiting.  I don’t think it would be possible to develop naturally and cause oneself harm doing so.   The woman in the picture probably doesn’t have a whole lot more muscle than lots of other women athletes, really; what she has is lower bodyfat.  Low bodyfat levels can be unhealthy in women.   If you’ve never seen professional bodybuilders in competition, it can be pretty interesting.  Posing — definitely a learned skill (I can’t do it worth a darn) — greatly affects the appearance of muscularity. For example, Arnold Schwarzenegger in his prime, posing in competition, looked phenomenal.  In street clothes he didn’t look a lot different than, say, a pro football player.  But he had honed his body specifically for his sport, and knew how to show it to advantage. Chris 262/130s/130s started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

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People Baby Purr Request

Question:

Please share a few of those purrs for a uneventful pregnancy and a healthy baby in the Fall!

Here’s hoping that things turn out well for the baby and for your whole family.  May this be a truly ‘blessed event’. Regards and Purrs, O J

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My brother and SIL told my mom yesterday that she’s expecting. This wasn’t planned, but it’s not totally unexpected either, as they’d been talking about having another child. (their youngest daughter just turned 2, and the pediatrician is very happy with how she’d developed, both physically and mentally) Anyway, they’re both scared to death as they’re a little older than most baby-having couples (he’ll be nearly 41 when the baby is born, she’s 39), and they’re afraid something will be wrong with the baby because of this. Please share a few of those purrs for a uneventful pregnancy and a healthy baby in the Fall!

I have some close friends who were that age when their second child, Emma, was born. She’s nearly 4 now, and perfectly healthy. I’m sure everything will be fine and you’ll soon be an aunt again. Maybe one day you’ll be a great aunt, I believe there is one on this group already, though she doesn’t brag about it. — Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) A house is not a home, without a cat.

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Purrs on the way, but of course women are having babies at later ages all the time these days.  Back when I was born, in 1960, it was practically *unheard of* for a woman my mom’s age to be having a baby.  She was 33 Jill

I was 32 when Mandy was born.  She turns 18 on Tuesday, I turn 50 in September. Pam S. ready for some nest leaving

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Purrs that all will be well.  If it helps to pass this on, I had my 2nd at 39 and had a much better pregnancy and delivery than I did for my first at 35. I did do ultrasounds and amniocentisis for both. Christine

No way!!!  I thought you were in your 30s when we visited you.  You look so young.  Girl, you just gotta bring the kids and hubby with you and do the gathering in Toadsuck this year.  My crew are looking forward to seeing your crew again. Pam S.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Purrs that all will be well.  If it helps to pass this on, I had my 2nd at 39 and had a much better pregnancy and delivery than I did for my first at 35. I did do ultrasounds and amniocentisis for both. Christine No way!!!  I thought you were in your 30s when we visited you.  You look so young.  Girl, you just gotta bring the kids and hubby with you and do the gathering in Toadsuck this year.  My crew are looking forward to seeing your crew again. Pam S.

Ooo, Pam, you are now my favorite person — thanks! Christine

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My brother and SIL told my mom yesterday that she’s expecting. This wasn’t planned, but it’s not totally unexpected either, as they’d been talking about having another child. (their youngest daughter just turned 2, and the pediatrician is very happy with how she’d developed, both physically and mentally) Anyway, they’re both scared to death as they’re a little older than most baby-having couples (he’ll be nearly 41 when the baby is born, she’s 39), and they’re afraid something will be wrong with the baby because of this. Please share a few of those purrs for a uneventful pregnancy and a healthy baby in the Fall! Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha http://www.jhedge.com

You have them coming, but honestly, if she’s fertile, she doesn’t have a whole lot to worry about.  The biggest concern for "advanced age" parents, next to infertility, is trisomy 21 and that is really only a concern if you are over 40.  I am 41, infertile and have a TON of friends who have delivered over 35 – many over 40.  All of those who are fertile have had strong, healthy babies. hugs, -L.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -My brother and SIL told my mom yesterday that she’s expecting. This wasn’t planned, but it’s not totally unexpected either, as they’d been talking about having another child. (their youngest daughter just turned 2, and the pediatrician is very happy with how she’d developed, both physically and mentally) Anyway, they’re both scared to death as they’re a little older than most baby-having couples (he’ll be nearly 41 when the baby is born, she’s 39), and they’re afraid something will be wrong with the baby because of this. Please share a few of those purrs for a uneventful pregnancy and a healthy baby in the Fall! Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha http://www.jhedge.com

You got it. Ginger-lyn

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Lots of purrs for the baby and the mommy to be healthy and happy, — Polonca & Soncek

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My brother and SIL told my mom yesterday that she’s expecting. This wasn’t planned, but it’s not totally unexpected either, as they’d been talking about having another child. (their youngest daughter just turned 2, and the pediatrician is very happy with how she’d developed, both physically and mentally) Anyway, they’re both scared to death as they’re a little older than most baby-having couples (he’ll be nearly 41 when the baby is born, she’s 39), and they’re afraid something will be wrong with the baby because of this. Please share a few of those purrs for a uneventful pregnancy and a healthy baby in the Fall! Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha http://www.jhedge.com

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My brother and SIL told my mom yesterday that she’s expecting. This wasn’t planned, but it’s not totally unexpected either, as they’d been talking about having another child. (their youngest daughter just turned 2, and the pediatrician is very happy with how she’d developed, both physically and mentally) Anyway, they’re both scared to death as they’re a little older than most baby-having couples (he’ll be nearly 41 when the baby is born, she’s 39), and they’re afraid something will be wrong with the baby because of this. Please share a few of those purrs for a uneventful pregnancy and a healthy baby in the Fall!

We’re sending out purrs for the human mom-and-baby from the cat mom-and-baby purring team, Lula and Hubie. —— Krista

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My brother and SIL told my mom yesterday that she’s expecting. This wasn’t planned, but it’s not totally unexpected either, as they’d been talking about having another child. (their youngest daughter just turned 2, and the pediatrician is very happy with how she’d developed, both physically and mentally) Anyway, they’re both scared to death as they’re a little older than most baby-having couples (he’ll be nearly 41 when the baby is born, she’s 39), and they’re afraid something will be wrong with the baby because of this. Please share a few of those purrs for a uneventful pregnancy and a healthy baby in the Fall! Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha http://www.jhedge.com

Gladly!  My mom had my sister at 39 and there were no problems, well, except poor mom had morning sickness the whole way thru her pregnancy (anemia as well iirc)  tell her to take her vitamins and iron supplements and such and she should be fine Kristy

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My brother and SIL told my mom yesterday that she’s expecting. This wasn’t planned, but it’s not totally unexpected either, as they’d been talking about having another child. (their youngest daughter just turned 2, and the pediatrician is very happy with how she’d developed, both physically and mentally) Anyway, they’re both scared to death as they’re a little older than most baby-having couples (he’ll be nearly 41 when the baby is born, she’s 39), and they’re afraid something will be wrong with the baby because of this. Please share a few of those purrs for a uneventful pregnancy and a healthy baby in the Fall! Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha http://www.jhedge.com

I know plenty of women that age having babies. Congrats to her and mega purrs all goes smoothly. If she listens to her doctor, eats right and all, she should do fine. Is she in generally good condition? That is also a factor. I hope all goes well and be sure to keep us posted.

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Purrs on the way, but of course women are having babies at later ages all the time these days.  Back when I was born, in 1960, it was practically *unheard of* for a woman my mom’s age to be having a baby.  She was 33

Not that many years later, my mother gave birth to her last (me).  She was 44 at the time, and already a grandma! — Cathi

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My brother and SIL told my mom yesterday that she’s expecting. This wasn’t planned, but it’s not totally unexpected either, as they’d been talking about having another child. (their youngest daughter just turned 2, and the pediatrician is very happy with how she’d developed, both physically and mentally) Anyway, they’re both scared to death as they’re a little older than most baby-having couples (he’ll be nearly 41 when the baby is born, she’s 39), and they’re afraid something will be wrong with the baby because of this. Please share a few of those purrs for a uneventful pregnancy and a healthy baby in the Fall! Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha http://www.jhedge.com

Purrs for a successful outcome.  I was born just before my mother’s 40th birthday. My youngest granddaughter was born    just before her mother’s 40th birthday.  In this area it is common to have kids later in life.

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4ax.com): Please share a few of those purrs for a uneventful pregnancy and a healthy baby in the Fall!

Purrs for your brother and SIL! Exciting! More and more people are having kids later in life. I couldn’t do it, but I know many who do. Even my sister had twins at age 35. Now that I DEFINITELY couldn’t do! — Cheryl

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Purrrs on the way from Memphis and Phoenix (who could purr for England!) — Sandra

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My brother and SIL told my mom yesterday that she’s expecting. This wasn’t planned, but it’s not totally unexpected either, as they’d been talking about having another child. (their youngest daughter just turned 2, and the pediatrician is very happy with how she’d developed, both physically and mentally) Anyway, they’re both scared to death as they’re a little older than most baby-having couples (he’ll be nearly 41 when the baby is born, she’s 39), and they’re afraid something will be wrong with the baby because of this. Please share a few of those purrs for a uneventful pregnancy and a healthy baby in the Fall! Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha http://www.jhedge.com

Purrs that all will be well.  If it helps to pass this on, I had my 2nd at 39 and had a much better pregnancy and delivery than I did for my first at 35. I did do ultrasounds and amniocentisis for both. Christine

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You got mine for sure, my daughter is 39 in may and she is 5 months pregnant she had a miscarriage the same day Cary the Yowlet was born, her DH is 18 months younger though if that counts for anything lol. I’m sure you Sil will be ok Jeanne but plenty of Baby Purrs for her , and calming Purrs for you      Jean.P.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My brother and SIL told my mom yesterday that she’s expecting. This wasn’t planned, but it’s not totally unexpected either, as they’d been talking about having another child. (their youngest daughter just turned 2, and the pediatrician is very happy with how she’d developed, both physically and mentally) Anyway, they’re both scared to death as they’re a little older than most baby-having couples (he’ll be nearly 41 when the baby is born, she’s 39), and they’re afraid something will be wrong with the baby because of this. Please share a few of those purrs for a uneventful pregnancy and a healthy baby in the Fall! Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha http://www.jhedge.com

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My brother and SIL told my mom yesterday that she’s expecting. This wasn’t planned, but it’s not totally unexpected either, as they’d been talking about having another child. (their youngest daughter just turned 2, and the pediatrician is very happy with how she’d developed, both physically and mentally) Anyway, they’re both scared to death as they’re a little older than most baby-having couples (he’ll be nearly 41 when the baby is born, she’s 39), and they’re afraid something will be wrong with the baby because of this. Please share a few of those purrs for a uneventful pregnancy and a healthy baby in the Fall!

Purrs and prayers of course.  There is so much working in their favor.  They have had healthy children before.  They were able to get pregnant without undue assistance.  Medicine has come a very long way in caring for "older" parents. She isn’t even old enough for this to be considered a change of life baby, and the overwhelming majority of those are just fine too. So when are they due? Jo

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Purrs on the way for a safe pregnancy and a healthy baby. Sam, closely supervised by Mistletoe

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My brother and SIL told my mom yesterday that she’s expecting. This wasn’t planned, but it’s not totally unexpected either, as they’d been talking about having another child. (their youngest daughter just turned 2, and the pediatrician is very happy with how she’d developed, both physically and mentally) Anyway, they’re both scared to death as they’re a little older than most baby-having couples (he’ll be nearly 41 when the baby is born, she’s 39), and they’re afraid something will be wrong with the baby because of this. Please share a few of those purrs for a uneventful pregnancy and a healthy baby in the Fall! Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha http://www.jhedge.com

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My brother and SIL told my mom yesterday that she’s expecting. This wasn’t planned, but it’s not totally unexpected either, as they’d been talking about having another child. (their youngest daughter just turned 2, and the pediatrician is very happy with how she’d developed, both physically and mentally) Anyway, they’re both scared to death as they’re a little older than most baby-having couples (he’ll be nearly 41 when the baby is born, she’s 39), and they’re afraid something will be wrong with the baby because of this. Please share a few of those purrs for a uneventful pregnancy and a healthy baby in the Fall!

Healthy mom and baby purrs on the way — Elise (supervised by Gossamer & Jeeves)

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My brother and SIL told my mom yesterday that she’s expecting. This wasn’t planned, but it’s not totally unexpected either, as they’d been talking about having another child. (their youngest daughter just turned 2, and the pediatrician is very happy with how she’d developed, both physically and mentally) Anyway, they’re both scared to death as they’re a little older than most baby-having couples (he’ll be nearly 41 when the baby is born, she’s 39), and they’re afraid something will be wrong with the baby because of this. Please share a few of those purrs for a uneventful pregnancy and a healthy baby in the Fall! Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha http://www.jhedge.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My brother and SIL told my mom yesterday that she’s expecting. This wasn’t planned, but it’s not totally unexpected either, as they’d been talking about having another child. (their youngest daughter just turned 2, and the pediatrician is very happy with how she’d developed, both physically and mentally) Anyway, they’re both scared to death as they’re a little older than most baby-having couples (he’ll be nearly 41 when the baby is born, she’s 39), and they’re afraid something will be wrong with the baby because of this. Please share a few of those purrs for a uneventful pregnancy and a healthy baby in the Fall! Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha http://www.jhedge.com

Purrs on the way, but of course women are having babies at later ages all the time these days.  Back when I was born, in 1960, it was practically *unheard of* for a woman my mom’s age to be having a baby.  She was 33 Jill

Response:

My brother and SIL told my mom yesterday that she’s expecting. This wasn’t planned, but it’s not totally unexpected either, as they’d been talking about having another child. (their youngest daughter just turned 2, and the pediatrician is very happy with how she’d developed, both physically and mentally) Anyway, they’re both scared to death as they’re a little older than most baby-having couples (he’ll be nearly 41 when the baby is born, she’s 39), and they’re afraid something will be wrong with the baby because of this. Please share a few of those purrs for a uneventful pregnancy and a healthy baby in the Fall!

Purrs on the way.  But tell your SIL that that’s not really that old to be having a baby, women have babies into their late 40s.  If she’s really scared I’m sure the doctor can do an amniocentesis (sp?) – but that would involve the decision to terminate the pregnancy if there *is* something found. Hugs, CatNipped – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha http://www.jhedge.com

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My brother and SIL told my mom yesterday that she’s expecting. This wasn’t planned, but it’s not totally unexpected either, as they’d been talking about having another child. (their youngest daughter just turned 2, and the pediatrician is very happy with how she’d developed, both physically and mentally) Anyway, they’re both scared to death as they’re a little older than most baby-having couples (he’ll be nearly 41 when the baby is born, she’s 39), and they’re afraid something will be wrong with the baby because of this. Please share a few of those purrs for a uneventful pregnancy and a healthy baby in the Fall! Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha

As I’m sure your brother and sil are aware, there is an increasing risk of anomalies in the child as the mother gets older.  However, my mother gave birth to one of my brothers when she was 37 and another when she was 39 and they are both absolutely fine, intelligence wise and health wise. A colleague at work has just returned from maternity leave, having had her first child at 39.  He is fine too. If the health service there is anything like in the UK, she will be well monitored. Lots of purrs for a happy outcome. Tweed

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We’re sending out loud, happy, chirpy purrs for the parents-to-be’s good news, and plenty of purrs and purr-ayers for a healthy, uneventful pregnancy for mama and baby. Wish them the best for us. ) Donna, Captain, and Stanley

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Give Expectant Mothers an Alternative to Abortion

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – From YourSITE.com Give Expectant Mothers an Alternative to Abortion Yeah, I avoided posting this when it originally came out 2-3 days ago to avoid the loonies who google search and drop in here at any mention abortion.  LOL That was smart of you. Rh, who just thought she’d'd drop in because of the mention of abortion;-) Bwwaaaaa.  There’s another article out there (Don’t Give Your Baby A Crushed Skull, Give It A Forever Family).  I guess it’s the yearly Roe V Wade debate.  LOL

It always attends the Anniversary of RvW on January 23rd…

Response:

From YourSITE.com Give Expectant Mothers an Alternative to Abortion Yeah, I avoided posting this when it originally came out 2-3 days ago to avoid the loonies who google search and drop in here at any mention abortion.  LOL

Me, too…but the reconsidered, "The Loonies, too, must be taught!"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – From YourSITE.com Give Expectant Mothers an Alternative to Abortion Yeah, I avoided posting this when it originally came out 2-3 days ago to avoid the loonies who google search and drop in here at any mention abortion.  LOL That was smart of you. Rh, who just thought she’d'd drop in because of the mention of abortion;-)

Bwwaaaaa.  There’s another article out there (Don’t Give Your Baby A Crushed Skull, Give It A Forever Family).  I guess it’s the yearly Roe V Wade debate.  LOL

Response:

From YourSITE.com Give Expectant Mothers an Alternative to Abortion

Yeah, I avoided posting this when it originally came out 2-3 days ago to avoid the loonies who google search and drop in here at any mention abortion.  LOL

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – From YourSITE.com Give Expectant Mothers an Alternative to Abortion Yeah, I avoided posting this when it originally came out 2-3 days ago to avoid the loonies who google search and drop in here at any mention abortion.  LOL

That was smart of you. Rh, who just thought she’d'd drop in because of the mention of abortion;-)

Response:

 From YourSITE.com Give Expectant Mothers an Alternative to Abortion By Nathan Tabor Feb 6, 2005, 19:08 Crowds of pro-life Americans filled the streets of Washington, D.C. this week to protest the 32 years of bloody infanticide that have followed the immoral Roe vs. Wade decision of 1973. March for Life organizers estimated that more than 250,000 hardy souls braved the bitter cold to stand in defense of innocent unborn children. A variety of speakers urged the assembled activists to stay the course, promising victory ahead. With several appointments to the Supreme Court in the offing, the prospect for reversing the Roe decision seems more real than it has in recent years. President George W. Bush encouraged the marchers by telephone from Camp David.

A trip back to Google

Question:

Don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back.

Response:

LOL  That was way way before my time.  I never had the pleasure of experiencing the Silk Dick.  ;-) I’m sorry.  I’m trying to quit smoking <again and I’m cranky as

hell. Ah. The assistance Mr Dick offered might not make quitting smoking easier, but might help with crankiness bit…here is an excerpt from his original post. "Hello.  My name is Richard (Dick) Silk. "I realize that some of you women out there would like to exp

Would the fiance have to pay child support?

Question:

Ignoramus30333 said > *Calinda* <CalindaDotLett…@gmailRemove.com> wrote: > > BTW.. your absense has been noticed (by me at least  )  and I’m hoping > > it’s due to just regular life stuff and nothing too terrible. > Ah, thanks. My absense was due to lack of big trouble, in fact. I > never really left completely , but I would scan these newsgroups > sporadically.

Well, then scan this one more often. Don’t make me cause you big trouble just so you’ll show up.   Casey

Response:

Joe St. Lucas said > >> So, there is no father, technically. The mother should proceed as a > >> single woman. > >Well, yes there is a father, somewhere, unless it was an anonymous donor, > >that is. > I’ve never donated sperm to a clinic, but if I were to be held responsible for > a lifetime of child support for every child conceived as a result of this, why > the heck would I do it?

I’m not sure.  Besides promising to insulate me from the threat of paying CS, the clinic would have to offer either: a) An impressive amount of money b) Some "hard-to-obtain-elsewhere" girlie magazines c) Unusually tasty snacks and beverages or d) Convince me I was doing some really great deed to benefit mankind Casey

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Casey <cclremovethisp…@cox.net> writes: > Joe St. Lucas said > > >> So, there is no father, technically. The mother should proceed as a > > >> single woman. > > >Well, yes there is a father, somewhere, unless it was an anonymous donor, > > >that is. > > I’ve never donated sperm to a clinic, but if I were to be held responsible for > > a lifetime of child support for every child conceived as a result of this, why > > the heck would I do it? > I’m not sure.  Besides promising to insulate me from the threat of > paying CS, the clinic would have to offer either: > a) An impressive amount of money > b) Some "hard-to-obtain-elsewhere" girlie magazines > c) Unusually tasty snacks and beverages > or > d) Convince me I was doing some really great deed to benefit mankind

I’ve always suspected enough men believe d) already so that sperm banks don’t need to waste any effort convincing anyone of anything.

Response:

Casey wrote: > c) Unusually tasty snacks and beverages

This really made me laugh!

Response:

"cyniclgrl" <cy…@orthopedic.org> wrote in message

news:34p02mF4dnhioU1@individual.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "*Calinda*" <CalindaDotLett…@gmailRemove.com> wrote in message > news:Xns95DDE95EFB82619599491@130.133.1.4… > > On Thu 13 Jan 2005 10:54:59p, *Calinda* wrote: > > >> If an unmarried woman has a baby, and her live-in boyfriend is not the > > >> father, does he legally have to pay support? No. > > > Bzzzt.. wrong. If he’s the father, he does. > > Shoot..  Yes, I mis-read that. > > Apologies.– > > Cal~ > So, there is no father, technically. The mother should proceed as a single > woman. > The "fiance" has no obligation. One reason I *hate* this fiancee/fiancee > label. You’re married , or you aren’t!

With the exception that they were going to the fertility clinic together, trying to user his sperm. It was the intention to have his baby, and would be, if the clinic didn’t goof. It probably shouldn’t carry the same weight as if the child was genetically his, but should carry some weight. However, a lot more weight should be put on the clinic. If they didn’t goof, then the woman (hopefully) wouldn’t have the problem with the fianc

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