Help Infertility

looking to start an infertility weblog?

admin — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I imagine that there are a substantial number of folks suffering from infertility who participate in this adoption forum. Nah, we usually chase them off. Not all of em.. we just opt to remain as Lurkers…. Some of us want to get as much information and as many points of view on adoption before we do anything. It’s been quite helpful to me to read most of the comments in here. Helps to understand what we should try if/when we do adopt. We all want helathy, happy, well adjusted people to come from the children we raise, afterall, and it helps to understand anything that might increase the odds of that..

Good for you and thanks for de-cloaking. Hoping you’ll have more to say, J. Reply to jmhjmd at aol.

Response:

Headers trimmed to alt.adoption I imagine that there are a substantial number of folks suffering from infertility who participate in this adoption forum. As for flamewars, my wife and I are describing our experience in its entirety… the whole good, bad, and ugly. All comments are welcome.

Did you absolutely *have* to cross-post to all those news groups?

Response:

If you are infertile, you’re welcome to join us for adoption talk at alt.infertility.alternatives. There are many of us who already have children (through all types of adoption) and some who are in the process of adopting – from "just thinking about it" to waiting for placement. It’s a very caring, supportive group, and we are open to sharing our experiences and answering questions. -L.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I imagine that there are a substantial number of folks suffering from infertility who participate in this adoption forum. Nah, we usually chase them off. Not all of em.. we just opt to remain as Lurkers…. Some of us want to get as much information and as many points of view on adoption before we do anything. It’s been quite helpful to me to read most of the comments in here. Helps to understand what we should try if/when we do adopt. We all want helathy, happy, well adjusted people to come from the children we raise, afterall, and it helps to understand anything that might increase the odds of that..

Sounds like a worthy goal. I spoke at a national adoption conference in Oz earlier this year. In the lunch break I was talking with a woman who introduced herself to me. I didn’t recognise her name, but she had been lurking and reading a.a. for years and knew me through my posts here. Julia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As for flamewars, my wife and I are describing our experience in its entirety… the whole good, bad, and ugly. All comments are welcome. Be careful what you wish for. Dad

Response:

I imagine that there are a substantial number of folks suffering from infertility who participate in this adoption forum. Nah, we usually chase them off.

Not all of em.. we just opt to remain as Lurkers…. Some of us want to get as much information and as many points of view on adoption before we do anything. It’s been quite helpful to me to read most of the comments in here. Helps to understand what we should try if/when we do adopt. We all want helathy, happy, well adjusted people to come from the children we raise, afterall, and it helps to understand anything that might increase the odds of that.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As for flamewars, my wife and I are describing our experience in its entirety… the whole good, bad, and ugly. All comments are welcome. Be careful what you wish for. Dad

Response:

I imagine that there are a substantial number of folks suffering from infertility who participate in this adoption forum.

Nah, we usually chase them off. As for flamewars, my wife and I are describing our experience in its entirety… the whole good, bad, and ugly. All comments are welcome.

Be careful what you wish for. Dad

Response:

I imagine that there are a substantial number of folks suffering from infertility who participate in this adoption forum. As for flamewars, my wife and I are describing our experience in its entirety… the whole good, bad, and ugly. All comments are welcome.

Response:

I have designed a free blogging system, incorporated within a web-based bulletin board. If you have considered starting your own infertility blog, I hope that you’ll give my BBS/blog system a shot. For more info: http://www.rrbbs.com/cgi-bin/bbs/login.pl?new Thanks for reading, Rob www.rrbbs.com P.S. My wife and I are currently blogging about our domestic adoption process at www.adoptblog.com (check it out for an example)

Response:

I’m sure you both a very nice people, but an infertility blog isn’t really something the majority of the alt.adoptioniers are here for. As for your domestic adoption blog, there is much in there that could go a long way in offending folks around here so don’t be too upset if someone aims a flamethrower in your direction. (the)duckster apar, old-timer, mama duck to crk a. 4/98 PRC

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have designed a free blogging system, incorporated within a web-based bulletin board. If you have considered starting your own infertility blog, I hope that you’ll give my BBS/blog system a shot. For more info: http://www.rrbbs.com/cgi-bin/bbs/login.pl?new Thanks for reading, Rob www.rrbbs.com P.S. My wife and I are currently blogging about our domestic adoption process at www.adoptblog.com (check it out for an example)

Response:

Study: Body mass affects sperm quality

admin — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Study: Body mass affects sperm quality

So you are telling us if I am a blubbery mess, I cant have children? Get out of here, I am 29 Stone and I have 29 kids with 3 more on the way, they were born without any problem and now I am planning another 5 this year, and I am only 23 years old. That blows your theory out of the window Mr know it all. This email address is a disposable one, Any email sent to it will be recieved by me until such time as it fills with spam where upon I will change it for another disposable address.

Response:

Study: Body mass affects sperm quality PHILADELPHIA, Pennsylvania (AP) — Beer bellies may take a toll on men below the belt, not just around it. Men who weigh too much are more likely to have poor sperm quality, research on nearly 1,600 young Danish men has found. Being too thin is a problem, too. Women don’t get off the hook. Though it’s long been known that very overweight women have trouble conceiving naturally, a large new study confirms they also are less likely to become pregnant even when embryos are fertilized in lab dishes and placed in their wombs. "Among the severely obese, we saw significantly reduced implantation and pregnancy rates," said Dr. David Ryley of Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston. He presented results of the women’s study this week at a meeting of the American Society for Reproductive Medicine. The sperm study was done by doctors at various hospitals and universities in Denmark and published in the October issue of the reproductive society’s journal, Fertility & Sterility. It involved 1,558 men, average age 19, who volunteered to give a semen sample during mandatory exams to determine their fitness for military service in two cities, Amsterdam and Aalborg. Sperm counts, sperm concentration, semen volume and other measures of sperm quality such as shape and motility were measured, along with testicle size and hormone levels. Researchers also calculated each man’s body mass index, a measure of obesity that takes into account height and weight. Scores for men with healthy BMIs — between 20 and 25, or 139 to 174 pounds for a man who is 5-foot-10 — were compared to those of men above and below that range. Sperm counts and sperm concentration were 28.1 percent and 36.4 percent lower respectively in underweight men. The same measures were 21.6 percent and 23.9 percent lower respectively in overweight men. Why this may be happening is unclear. "Low BMI can result from a ‘healthy lifestyle’ but may also be due to many chronic diseases," the authors write. The biological explanation or mechanism also may be different in underweight and overweight men, they note. "It may be an alteration in hormonal values," said Dr. Anthony J. Thomas Jr., a Cleveland Clinic urologist who is president of the Society for Male Reproduction and Urology and was not involved in the study. Men produce and need a certain amount of the female hormone estrogen. Fat cells produce estrogen, so too much or too little of it may be a problem. "There’s a balance, and that balance is the milieu in which sperm develops," Anthony said. Other research suggests that smoking and heavy alcohol use also harm sperm production, he said. The new study is a reminder that doctors should always check a man for signs of infertility when couples are having trouble getting pregnant because the problem is just as likely to involve men as women. "It’s not uncommon for a man to come in after his wife has had a million tests" and then discovered to have sperm problems, Thomas said. "It’s probably one of the first things a doctor should do." The other study on women involved 5,847 attempts at in vitro fertilization in which embryos are fertilized in a lab dish, at Beth Israel’s infertility clinic, Boston IVF. Obese women — whose BMIs were 35 and over — had little more than a 1 in 5 chance of becoming pregnant through IVF; the odds were better than 1 in 4 for women with healthy weights. Embryos were also less likely to implant in the fat women. Overweight women have irregular periods and lower ovulation rates, making it harder for them to get pregnant naturally, Ryley said. When given fertility treatments, they often need higher doses of drugs and for a longer time to spur ovulation, he said. His study didn’t find that very thin women had more trouble conceiving as some previous research has suggested.

Response:

Scores for men with healthy BMIs — between 20 and 25, or 139 to 174 pounds for a man who is 5-foot-10 — were compared to those of men above and below that range. Sperm counts and sperm concentration were 28.1 percent and 36.4 percent lower respectively in underweight men. The same measures were 21.6 percent and 23.9 percent lower respectively in overweight men. Why this may be happening is unclear. "Low BMI can result from a ‘healthy lifestyle’ but may also be due to many chronic diseases," the authors write.

True, or it might be that being skinny reduces sperm quality. It might be more edifying to consider both bodyfat and lean body mass as independent variables. With 1600 subjects, they should have had a large enough sample to do that. — -Wayne

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Scores for men with healthy BMIs — between 20 and 25, or 139 to 174 pounds for a man who is 5-foot-10 — were compared to those of men above and below that range. Sperm counts and sperm concentration were 28.1 percent and 36.4 percent lower respectively in underweight men. The same measures were 21.6 percent and 23.9 percent lower respectively in overweight men. Why this may be happening is unclear. "Low BMI can result from a ‘healthy lifestyle’ but may also be due to many chronic diseases," the authors write. True, or it might be that being skinny reduces sperm quality. It might be more edifying to consider both bodyfat and lean body mass as independent variables. With 1600 subjects, they should have had a large enough sample to do that.

That is true. The added expense probably killed that idea. Along with the fact that it would have actually been a USEFUL study. Hard to get those kind of things approved.

Response:

Keisha Sweet is a great pornstar name. Randy

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – —–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 Study: Body mass affects sperm quality PHILADELPHIA, Pennsylvania (AP) — Beer bellies may take a toll on men below the belt, not just around it. Men who weigh too much are more likely to have poor sperm quality, research on nearly 1,600 young Danish men has found. Being too thin is a problem, too. Women don’t get off the hook. Though it’s long been known that very overweight women have trouble conceiving naturally, a large new study confirms they also are less likely to become pregnant even when embryos are fertilized in lab dishes and placed in their wombs. Yep-that is why there are so may fat women with children. Get a job you stupid fuck.

Learn, you fat bitch. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Display&d… Lyle

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ——BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 Study: Body mass affects sperm quality PHILADELPHIA, Pennsylvania (AP) — Beer bellies may take a toll on men below the belt, not just around it. Men who weigh too much are more likely to have poor sperm quality, research on nearly 1,600 young Danish men has found. Being too thin is a problem, too. Women don’t get off the hook. Though it’s long been known that very overweight women have trouble conceiving naturally, a large new study confirms they also are less likely to become pregnant even when embryos are fertilized in lab dishes and placed in their wombs. Yep-that is why there are so may fat women with children. Get a job you stupid fuck.

Bless you gentle lady, how nice to see that you are still gracing the halls of Usenet with your fragrance!! Have a great weekend – I intend to!! ;o) TFIF!! [...]

Response:

Keisha Sweet quoted: Study: Body mass affects sperm quality PHILADELPHIA, Pennsylvania (AP) — Beer bellies may take a toll on men below the belt, not just around it. Sperm counts and sperm concentration were 28.1 percent and 36.4 percent lower respectively in underweight men. The same measures were 21.6 percent and 23.9 percent lower respectively in overweight men. Why this may be happening is unclear.

Why is it such a mystery? A body that is underweight is worried about starvation. There would be avolutionary pressure to avoid pregnancy during a famine. A body overweight but not so overweight as to be ill is not worried about starvation. There would not be evolutionary pressure to avoid pregnancy during times of plentifull food. So their overweight subjects were eating poorly rather than excessively.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Keisha Sweet quoted: Study: Body mass affects sperm quality PHILADELPHIA, Pennsylvania (AP) — Beer bellies may take a toll on men below the belt, not just around it. Sperm counts and sperm concentration were 28.1 percent and 36.4 percent lower respectively in underweight men. The same measures were 21.6 percent and 23.9 percent lower respectively in overweight men. Why this may be happening is unclear. Why is it such a mystery? A body that is underweight is worried about starvation. There would be avolutionary pressure to avoid pregnancy during a famine. A body overweight but not so overweight as to be ill is not worried about starvation. There would not be evolutionary pressure to avoid pregnancy during times of plentifull food. So their overweight subjects were eating poorly rather than excessively.

Except that, with extreme overweight, an equal set of problems occurs. Women with abdominal fat and a waist/hip ratio far out of the norm (which happens to coincide with optimal attraction, about 0.7 or so) has lower fertility. Men with extreme obesity show decrements in hormones like testosterone and such and a decrease in fertility. Lots of data on this although I don’t expect you fat acceptance folks to be aware of it. Point being: relationship of fertility to weight is an inverted U, both extreme under and overweight leads to decreased fertility and there is an optimal level right in the middle range. Lyle

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – —–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 —–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 Study: Body mass affects sperm quality PHILADELPHIA, Pennsylvania (AP) — Beer bellies may take a toll on men below the belt, not just around it. Men who weigh too much are more likely to have poor sperm quality, research on nearly 1,600 young Danish men has found. Being too thin is a problem, too. Women don’t get off the hook. Though it’s long been known that very overweight women have trouble conceiving naturally, a large new study confirms they also are less likely to become pregnant even when embryos are fertilized in lab dishes and placed in their wombs. Yep-that is why there are so may fat women with children. Get a job you stupid fuck. Learn, you fat bitch. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Display&d opt=pubmed_pubmed&from_uid=12926529 Lyle stick it up your ass whore spawn. I wouldn’t trust the French to wipe your ass.They would probably get your face because they look the same.

Can you cite peer reviewed publications to back up your claim? Or was your response simply an knee jerk reaction. Sounds like the latter. Regards, Richard – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – LV Lady Veteran "I rode a tank and held a general’s rank when the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank…" – -Rolling Stones, Sympathy for the Devil People who hide behind anonymous remailers and ridicule fat people are cowardly idiots with no motive but malice. For every person with a spark of genius, there are a hundred more with ignition trouble. – -Unknown —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: PGP 8.0 – not licensed for commercial use: www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBQXmoAsjazA1WMM1JEQKA1wCgwSXOJ0rWs6amNXMSKlQRpdNhiBgAoJH2 wJy9MrIjRy+yWgp71tu4/s2S =y0rI —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Study: Body mass affects sperm quality PHILADELPHIA, Pennsylvania (AP) — Beer bellies may take a toll on men below the belt, not just around it. Men who weigh too much are more likely to have poor sperm quality, research on nearly 1,600 young Danish men has found. Being too thin is a problem, too. Women don’t get off the hook. Though it’s long been known that very overweight women have trouble conceiving naturally, a large new study confirms they also are less likely to become pregnant even when embryos are fertilized in lab dishes and placed in their wombs. "Among the severely obese, we saw significantly reduced implantation and pregnancy rates," said Dr. David Ryley of Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston. He presented results of the women’s study this week at a meeting of the American Society for Reproductive Medicine. The sperm study was done by doctors at various hospitals and universities in Denmark and published in the October issue of the reproductive society’s journal, Fertility & Sterility. It involved 1,558 men, average age 19, who volunteered to give a semen sample during mandatory exams to determine their fitness for military service in two cities, Amsterdam and Aalborg. Sperm counts, sperm concentration, semen volume and other measures of sperm quality such as shape and motility were measured, along with testicle size and hormone levels. Researchers also calculated each man’s body mass index, a measure of obesity that takes into account height and weight. Scores for men with healthy BMIs — between 20 and 25, or 139 to 174 pounds for a man who is 5-foot-10 — were compared to those of men above and below that range. Sperm counts and sperm concentration were 28.1 percent and 36.4 percent lower respectively in underweight men. The same measures were 21.6 percent and 23.9 percent lower respectively in overweight men. Why this may be happening is unclear. "Low BMI can result from a ‘healthy lifestyle’ but may also be due to many chronic diseases," the authors write. The biological explanation or mechanism also may be different in underweight and overweight men, they note. "It may be an alteration in hormonal values," said Dr. Anthony J. Thomas Jr., a Cleveland Clinic urologist who is president of the Society for Male Reproduction and Urology and was not involved in the study. Men produce and need a certain amount of the female hormone estrogen. Fat cells produce estrogen, so too much or too little of it may be a problem. "There’s a balance, and that balance is the milieu in which sperm develops," Anthony said. Other research suggests that smoking and heavy alcohol use also harm sperm production, he said. The new study is a reminder that doctors should always check a man for signs of infertility when couples are having trouble getting pregnant because the problem is just as likely to involve men as women. "It’s not uncommon for a man to come in after his wife has had a million tests" and then discovered to have sperm problems, Thomas said. "It’s probably one of the first things a doctor should do." The other study on women involved 5,847 attempts at in vitro fertilization in which embryos are fertilized in a lab dish, at Beth Israel’s infertility clinic, Boston IVF. Obese women — whose BMIs were 35 and over — had little more than a 1 in 5 chance of becoming pregnant through IVF; the odds were better than 1 in 4 for women with healthy weights. Embryos were also less likely to implant in the fat women. Overweight women have irregular periods and lower ovulation rates, making it harder for them to get pregnant naturally, Ryley said. When given fertility treatments, they often need higher doses of drugs and for a longer time to spur ovulation, he said. His study didn’t find that very thin women had more trouble conceiving as some previous research has suggested.

Take heed Neo ya fat cunt. Hehehehe… — The Witch-Hater General

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ——BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 …yeah…right….devinly inspiores…son of a bitch…right…. So has you kitties seen their vet yet you miserable son of a bitch? You write like a wetback mexican. You should take an English as a second language class at your local community college. Financial aid is available for residents of cheap motels, so it should not cost you a penny. Lady Veteran would benefit from a good adult literacy program. You would benefit from a brain transplant but we can’t have everything. LVC Lady Veteran

oh, Lady Veteran. You’re the best!

Response:

Point being: relationship of fertility to weight is an inverted U, both extreme under and overweight leads to decreased fertility and there is an optimal level right in the middle range.

So what’s your excuse, single, unmarried, living off Mommy and Daddy?

Response:

So what’s your excuse, single, unmarried, living off Mommy and Daddy?

You just described my last boyfriend. :-)

Response:

…yeah…right….devinly inspiores…son of a bitch…right…. So has you kitties seen their vet yet you miserable son of a bitch? You write like a wetback mexican. You should take an English as a second language class at your local community college. Financial aid is available for residents of cheap motels, so it should not cost you a penny.

Lady Veteran would benefit from a good adult literacy program.

Response:

…yeah…right….devinly inspiores…son of a bitch…right…. So has you kitties seen their vet yet you miserable son of a bitch?

You write like a wetback mexican. You should take an English as a second language class at your local community college. Financial aid is available for residents of cheap motels, so it should not cost you a penny. Yours in Christ, Marty

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – —–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 —–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 —–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 Study: Body mass affects sperm quality PHILADELPHIA, Pennsylvania (AP) — Beer bellies may take a toll on men below the belt, not just around it. Men who weigh too much are more likely to have poor sperm quality, research on nearly 1,600 young Danish men has found. Being too thin is a problem, too. Women don’t get off the hook. Though it’s long been known that very overweight women have trouble conceiving naturally, a large new study confirms they also are less likely to become pregnant even when embryos are fertilized in lab dishes and placed in their wombs. Yep-that is why there are so may fat women with children. Get a job you stupid fuck. Learn, you fat bitch. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Displa y&d opt=pubmed_pubmed&from_uid=12926529 Lyle stick it up your ass whore spawn. I wouldn’t trust the French to wipe your ass.They would probably get your face because they look the same. Can you cite peer reviewed publications to back up your claim? Or was your response simply an knee jerk reaction. Sounds like the latter. Regards, Richard Don’t need it. Idiots are very easy to recognize.

Thank you for the living example. Your input is recognised and valuable. Richard – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – LV Lady Veteran "I rode a tank and held a general’s rank when the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank…" – -Rolling Stones, Sympathy for the Devil People who hide behind anonymous remailers and ridicule fat people are cowardly idiots with no motive but malice. For every person with a spark of genius, there are a hundred more with ignition trouble. – -Unknown —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: PGP 8.0 – not licensed for commercial use: www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBQXvhD8jazA1WMM1JEQLkGACg+cAn1Q1t6JWm1dzAz1n5vr/zgqMAn0fe pHLX4+7J8rkRaN2ckXD3l+mK =ulE+ —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Response:

"Lady Veteran" wrote Learn, you fat bitch. stick it up your ass whore spawn. Can you cite peer reviewed publications to back up your claim?

She’s confusing Lyle with her only usenet friend Steve Chaney whose mom at age 14 shat him into a Greyhound Bus Station toilet. miguel

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Study: Body mass affects sperm quality PHILADELPHIA, Pennsylvania (AP) — Beer bellies may take a toll on men below the belt, not just around it. Men who weigh too much are more likely to have poor sperm quality, research on nearly 1,600 young Danish men has found. Being too thin is a problem, too. Women don’t get off the hook. Though it’s long been known that very overweight women have trouble conceiving naturally, a large new study confirms they also are less likely to become pregnant even when embryos are fertilized in lab dishes and placed in their wombs. Yep-that is why there are so may fat women with children.

Does sperm count affect the taste of your beloved boar semen? Get a job you stupid fuck.

Are you still living at the Budget Suites of America in Irving? Yours in Christ, Marty

Response:

Vasectomy

admin — Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Lash Rambo wrote: > I could swear I heard of a vasectomy procedure where they install small > valves that can later be reopened if you want.

Nope. Things like this–along with a male pill–are still in the research phase. trifold www.vasectomy-information.com www.vasectomy-faq.org

Response:

wrote in news:ZvGdnXWZIYXDS4reRVn-iQ@is.co.za: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Lash Rambo wrote: >> William P wrote >>> Lash Rambo wrote >>>> Troll wrote >>>>> "shyguy" wrote >>>>>> Looks like even though I am scared of needles and surgery, I am >>>>>> scheduling a vasectomy. I told my wife I would do this rather than >>>>>> her to have to go through getting her tubes tied which is a more >>>>>> serious procedure. Has anyone here ever had it? Is it that bad. I >>>>>> know I dont want nay more kids but something about KNOWING you >>>>>> never will have another kid bothers me. Is somethign happens to >>>>>> my wife and I’s relationship, will being infertile hurt my >>>>>> chances of marrying again? >>>>> Don’t do it. Use condoms and get her on the pill instead. Why hurt >>>>> yourself? >>>> Depo shots would be even better if her body can handle them. She’ll >>>> only need to get one once every three months (instead of having to >>>> remember to take a pill every day), she won’t have to deal with >>>> menstruation while on them, and they can reduce the chances of >>>> getting certain sex organ cancers (or slow their growth if she >>>> already has them). Price is competitive with the pill, and I >>>> believe Depo is statistically more effective. Some women take Depo >>>> even if they’re not sexually active just for the side benefits. >>> It makes some women seriously fat, that’s one of the problems. >> Yep, I know of one such case (poor woman put on 50 pounds within two >> or three months). I don’t know how common such cases are. Still, I >> think it’d be worth a shot. Don could strike a deal: "You try Depo >> for three months, and if you have serious negative side effects, then >> you stop and I’ll get the vasectomy." Sounds fair to me. > I wouldn’t stress *too much* on side effects in case it gives her > any ideas.

Right, stress the benefits. Even still, I figure it’s probably easier to reverse some weight gain or diminished libido than it is to reverse a vasectomy (barring the availability of the valve thing I mentioned in another post). I have a hard time seeing Don successfully negotiating something like this with his wife, but I’m prepared to be surprised.

Response:

"BLT Sammich" wrote in news:df8p6u$bho$0 @pita.alt.net: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Lash Rambo wrote: >> William P wrote in >> news:Xns96C4757FA4201willdotpsympaticodot@204.153.244.170: >> > Lash Rambo wrote in >> > news:Xns96C3A350FF8E1lrfakeaddrcom@68.1.17.6: >> >> Troll wrote in >> >> news:Xns96C32CCCD17E9eh3du@localhost: >> >>> "shyguy" wrote in >> news:1125451707.567042.198040 >>> @g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: >> >>>> Looks like even though I am scared of needles and surgery, I am >> >>>> scheduling a vasectomy. I told my wife I would do this rather >> than >>>> her to have to go through getting her tubes tied which is a >> more >>>> serious procedure. Has anyone here ever had it? Is it that >> bad. I >>>> know I dont want nay more kids but something about >> KNOWING you never >>>> will have another kid bothers me. Is somethign >> happens to my wife >>>> and I’s relationship, will being infertile >> hurt my chances of >>>> marrying again? >> >>> Don’t do it. Use condoms and get her on the pill instead. Why >> hurt >>> yourself? >> >> Depo shots would be even better if her body can handle them. >> She’ll >> only need to get one once every three months (instead of >> having to >> remember to take a pill every day), she won’t have to >> deal with >> menstruation while on them, and they can reduce the >> chances of getting >> certain sex organ cancers (or slow their growth >> if she already has >> them). Price is competitive with the pill, and >> I believe Depo is >> statistically more effective. Some women take >> Depo even if they’re >> not sexually active just for the side >> benefits. >> > It makes some women seriously fat, that’s one of the problems. >> Yep, I know of one such case (poor woman put on 50 pounds within two >> or three months). I don’t know how common such cases are. Still, I >> think it’d be worth a shot. Don could strike a deal: "You try Depo >> for three months, and if you have serious negative side effects, then >> you stop and I’ll get the vasectomy." Sounds fair to me. > Ive heard of that too and some other negative emotional side effects.

I’ve heard it can diminish libido to some degree. The biggie, and maybe I’m getting this mixed up with the pill, is blood problems. There’s either problems with clotting or problems with not clotting. It’s very rare, though, and would seem to be a risk that could be assessed beforehand (family history, etc.).

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Lash Rambo wrote: > wrote in news:ZvGdnXWZIYXDS4reRVn-iQ@is.co.za: > > Lash Rambo wrote: > >> William P wrote > >>> Lash Rambo wrote > >>>> Troll wrote > >>>>> "shyguy" wrote > >>>>>> Looks like even though I am scared of needles and surgery, I am > >>>>>> scheduling a vasectomy. I told my wife I would do this rather than > >>>>>> her to have to go through getting her tubes tied which is a more > >>>>>> serious procedure. Has anyone here ever had it? Is it that bad. I > >>>>>> know I dont want nay more kids but something about KNOWING you > >>>>>> never will have another kid bothers me. Is somethign happens to > >>>>>> my wife and I’s relationship, will being infertile hurt my > >>>>>> chances of marrying again? > >>>>> Don’t do it. Use condoms and get her on the pill instead. Why hurt > >>>>> yourself? > >>>> Depo shots would be even better if her body can handle them. She’ll > >>>> only need to get one once every three months (instead of having to > >>>> remember to take a pill every day), she won’t have to deal with > >>>> menstruation while on them, and they can reduce the chances of > >>>> getting certain sex organ cancers (or slow their growth if she > >>>> already has them). Price is competitive with the pill, and I > >>>> believe Depo is statistically more effective. Some women take Depo > >>>> even if they’re not sexually active just for the side benefits. > >>> It makes some women seriously fat, that’s one of the problems. > >> Yep, I know of one such case (poor woman put on 50 pounds within two > >> or three months). I don’t know how common such cases are. Still, I > >> think it’d be worth a shot. Don could strike a deal: "You try Depo > >> for three months, and if you have serious negative side effects, then > >> you stop and I’ll get the vasectomy." Sounds fair to me. > > I wouldn’t stress *too much* on side effects in case it gives her > > any ideas. > Right, stress the benefits. Even still, I figure it’s probably easier to > reverse some weight gain or diminished libido than it is to reverse a > vasectomy (barring the availability of the valve thing I mentioned in > another post). > I have a hard time seeing Don successfully negotiating something like > this with his wife, but I’m prepared to be surprised.

Yeh, if he was ready to listen we could coach him with all the possible/potential arguments (note to August – a la Dale Carnegie. Again the nonresistance principle comes into play: fully prepare yourself and watch all resistance crumble). However I’m thinking that perhaps Don is not ready to face the fact that he has choices. – Michaela

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Lash Rambo wrote: > William P wrote in > news:Xns96C4757FA4201willdotpsympaticodot@204.153.244.170: > > Lash Rambo wrote in > > news:Xns96C3A350FF8E1lrfakeaddrcom@68.1.17.6: > >> Troll wrote in > >> news:Xns96C32CCCD17E9eh3du@localhost: > >>> "shyguy" wrote in > news:1125451707.567042.198040 >>> @g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > >>>> Looks like even though I am scared of needles and surgery, I am > >>>> scheduling a vasectomy. I told my wife I would do this rather > than >>>> her to have to go through getting her tubes tied which is a > more >>>> serious procedure. Has anyone here ever had it? Is it that > bad. I >>>> know I dont want nay more kids but something about > KNOWING you never >>>> will have another kid bothers me. Is somethign > happens to my wife >>>> and I’s relationship, will being infertile > hurt my chances of >>>> marrying again? > >>> Don’t do it. Use condoms and get her on the pill instead. Why > hurt >>> yourself? > >> Depo shots would be even better if her body can handle them. > She’ll >> only need to get one once every three months (instead of > having to >> remember to take a pill every day), she won’t have to > deal with >> menstruation while on them, and they can reduce the > chances of getting >> certain sex organ cancers (or slow their growth > if she already has >> them). Price is competitive with the pill, and > I believe Depo is >> statistically more effective. Some women take > Depo even if they’re >> not sexually active just for the side > benefits. > > It makes some women seriously fat, that’s one of the problems. > Yep, I know of one such case (poor woman put on 50 pounds within two > or three months). I don’t know how common such cases are. Still, I > think it’d be worth a shot. Don could strike a deal: "You try Depo > for three months, and if you have serious negative side effects, then > you stop and I’ll get the vasectomy." Sounds fair to me.

Ive heard of that too and some other negative emotional side effects.

Response:

Lash Rambo wrote: > I’ve heard it can diminish libido to some degree.

Whereas a guy having a vasectomy so his wife comes off chemical bc can have the opposite effect–increase in partner’s sex drive. That’s what happened for us. And I’m not complaining! trifold www.vasectomy-information.com www.vasectomy-faq.org

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -William P wrote: > Troll wrote in news:Xns96C5DE92E180Eeh3du@localhost: >>Lash Rambo wrote in >>news:Xns96C58B94D25Dlrfakeaddrcom@ 68.1.17.6: >>>"shyguy" wrote in news:1125665286.361118.173990 >>>@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: >>>>I am not totally against having one. I really dont want kids right >>>>now. But if I ever got divorced and met someone else I could change. >>>>I also think about "dating" and what "having an accident" would >>>>cause. It could be a nightmare. I think there are some women out >>>>there that actually try to get pregnat on purpose. (Not alot but >>>>some). >>>I checked >>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasectomy >>>and didn’t see mention of the valve thing I read about. They stress >>>on that page that vasectomy should be considered permanent. So, if >>>there’s any doubt in your mind, seek alternatives. >>>Finally, should you have a vasectomy, get a divorce, and later marry >>>a woman who wants to start a new family, there’s always adoption. > Yeah, or artificial insemination, or getting an a.s.s. guy to perform a > hot beef injection.

Is somebody taking volunteers? >>Vasectomy is slicing your balls. His cold unthinking wife shouldn’t >>even think about getting him into that. > It’s also for the guy, if he doesn’t want to have kids and doesn’t want > his wife gaining 30 pounds or having weird mood side effects. And if > you’re going to use condoms forever, you might as well avoid the > emotional effort and just grease up and screw a rubber duck.

August Pamplona — Women bring men they like tasks in much the same way cats put dead mice on their owner’s pillows. – Lola on a.s.s. a.a. # 1811 apatriot #20 Eater of smut Proud member of the reality-based community. The address in this message’s ‘From’ field, in accordance with individual.net’s TOS, is real. However, almost all messages reaching this address are deleted without human intervention. In other words, if you e-mail me there, I will not receive your message. To make sure that e-mail messages actually reach me, make sure that my e-mail address is not hot.

Response:

shyguy wrote: > Looks like even though I am scared of needles and surgery, I am > scheduling a vasectomy. I told my wife I would do this rather than her > to have to go through getting her tubes tied which is a more serious > procedure. Has anyone here ever had it? Is it that bad. I know I dont > want nay more kids but something about KNOWING you never will have > another kid bothers me. Is somethign happens to my wife and I’s > relationship, will being infertile hurt my chances of marrying again?

These concerns are a good reason not to get a vasectomy. I had one 7 years ago–the worst part was the hair growing back. But I was very sure I didn’t want kids. There is some evidence people w/concerns like yours are more likely to be unsatisfied with the results than others. For lots of information on vasectomy, including stories by guys who have been through it, links to medical sites about procedures, complications, etc., even jokes and pictures and video (!!), check out: www.vasectomy-information.com There is also a link there to a specialised newsgroup–and chatroom. trifold

Response:

I am not totally against having one. I really dont want kids right now. But if I ever got divorced and met someone else I could change. I also think about "dating" and what "having an accident" would cause. It could be a nightmare. I think there are some women out there that actually try to get pregnat on purpose. (Not alot but some).

Response:

"shyguy" wrote in news:1125665286.361118.173990 @g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > I am not totally against having one. I really dont want kids right now. > But if I ever got divorced and met someone else I could change. > I also think about "dating" and what "having an accident" would cause. > It could be a nightmare. I think there are some women out there that > actually try to get pregnat on purpose. (Not alot but some).

I checked http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasectomy and didn’t see mention of the valve thing I read about. They stress on that page that vasectomy should be considered permanent. So, if there’s any doubt in your mind, seek alternatives. Finally, should you have a vasectomy, get a divorce, and later marry a woman who wants to start a new family, there’s always adoption.

Response:

Troll wrote in news:Xns96C5DE92E180Eeh3du@localhost: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Lash Rambo wrote in > news:Xns96C58B94D25Dlrfakeaddrcom@ 68.1.17.6: >> "shyguy" wrote in news:1125665286.361118.173990 >> @g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: >>> I am not totally against having one. I really dont want kids right >>> now. But if I ever got divorced and met someone else I could change. >>> I also think about "dating" and what "having an accident" would >>> cause. It could be a nightmare. I think there are some women out >>> there that actually try to get pregnat on purpose. (Not alot but >>> some). >> I checked >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasectomy >> and didn’t see mention of the valve thing I read about. They stress >> on that page that vasectomy should be considered permanent. So, if >> there’s any doubt in your mind, seek alternatives. >> Finally, should you have a vasectomy, get a divorce, and later marry >> a woman who wants to start a new family, there’s always adoption.

Yeah, or artificial insemination, or getting an a.s.s. guy to perform a hot beef injection. > Vasectomy is slicing your balls. His cold unthinking wife shouldn’t > even think about getting him into that.

It’s also for the guy, if he doesn’t want to have kids and doesn’t want his wife gaining 30 pounds or having weird mood side effects. And if you’re going to use condoms forever, you might as well avoid the emotional effort and just grease up and screw a rubber duck.

Response:

LisatheSequel wrote in news:df3tbp$30o$1 @swifty.westend.com: > My first husband thought the same way you do, our family was complete > as far as he was concerned and he did it for me because it was easier. > Later we divorced. Now he can’t start a family with a new wife > without going through surgery again. Even then it’s "iffy".

I suppose if one is unsure, then one should not do it. — "You tried to scan me, you freaked-out maniac." –TV’s Frank.

Response:

"shyguy" wrote in news:1125451707.567042.198040 @g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > Looks like even though I am scared of needles and surgery, I am > scheduling a vasectomy. I told my wife I would do this rather than her > to have to go through getting her tubes tied which is a more serious > procedure. Has anyone here ever had it? Is it that bad. I know I dont > want nay more kids but something about KNOWING you never will have > another kid bothers me. Is somethign happens to my wife and I’s > relationship, will being infertile hurt my chances of marrying again?

I could swear I heard of a vasectomy procedure where they install small valves that can later be reopened if you want.

Response:

Troll wrote in news:Xns96C32CCCD17E9eh3du@localhost: > "shyguy" wrote in news:1125451707.567042.198040 > @g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: >> Looks like even though I am scared of needles and surgery, I am >> scheduling a vasectomy. I told my wife I would do this rather than her >> to have to go through getting her tubes tied which is a more serious >> procedure. Has anyone here ever had it? Is it that bad. I know I dont >> want nay more kids but something about KNOWING you never will have >> another kid bothers me. Is somethign happens to my wife and I’s >> relationship, will being infertile hurt my chances of marrying again? > Don’t do it. Use condoms and get her on the pill instead. Why hurt > yourself?

Depo shots would be even better if her body can handle them. She’ll only need to get one once every three months (instead of having to remember to take a pill every day), she won’t have to deal with menstruation while on them, and they can reduce the chances of getting certain sex organ cancers (or slow their growth if she already has them). Price is competitive with the pill, and I believe Depo is statistically more effective. Some women take Depo even if they’re not sexually active just for the side benefits.

Response:

In a way I admire you in a similar manner to the way I admired my older brother once. After a number of years, he and his wife were unable to have children. I may be really wrong about this, but being quite short I always seemed to see him as trying to compensate in other ways, so when he was quick to offer to have himself checked first to see if he was the one with the problem, I really thought it was cool. Also afaic* remember in those days men denied that the problem could be theirs. * but this may well just be my perception and not the truth. OTOH why do I always seem to hear you being the one to offer up? Is it just me? Is it just what I want to see? Or is it just your version of the truth? All I do know is, if you just told her every now and then to do it herself or to shut up or that you were always going to have first choice on who gets to drive your hard-earned truck, you’d probably find her treating you much better. Strange innit? Has anyone here ever had it? Is it that bad. I know I dont > want nay more kids but something about KNOWING you never will have > another kid bothers me. Is somethign happens to my wife and I’s > relationship, will being infertile hurt my chances of marrying again?

If you believe they will. God, why you he even thinking of getting divorced? Another case of self-fulfilling prophecy? – Michaela

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 Only now do I realize it’s you… In article <1125451707.567042.198…@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> shyguy wrote: >Looks like even though I am scared of needles and surgery, I am >scheduling a vasectomy. I told my wife I would do this rather than her >to have to go through getting her tubes tied which is a more serious >procedure. Has anyone here ever had it? Is it that bad. I know I dont >want nay more kids but something about KNOWING you never will have >another kid bothers me. Is somethign happens to my wife and I’s >relationship, will being infertile hurt my chances of marrying again?

Unfortunately and IMHO, I do not trust your wife to appreciate the sacrifice you are prepared to make for her. In fact, I suspect she may see you as being a "pushover" for it. Also, you seem to have *some* doubts over wanting this. In that case, be a pushover now where it might actually do you some good and do as we tell you: DON’T get the snip if you feel uncomfortable about it!] Now that I know it’s you (and knowing your history), I’d agree with another poster in this thread. Get *her* on the pill and use condoms and/or the calendar. And/or whatever else works for you. Until she convinces you that she’d appreciate your sacrifice for her. Does she know that other attractive women who know you know that you’re considering getting the snip and are trying to talk you out of it? She should, even if these women are imaginary… – — "If you lie to the compiler, it will get its revenge." – Henry Spencer —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Please fetch my new key 804177F8 from hkp://wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net/ Comment: My current keys will expire in a month, please ask for ID checks now. iD8DBQFDFrsM/FmLrNfLpjMRAvUyAJ9SlFWbHzMg6pWT5SGIwZDNb5rCRwCfcL6a nMsI4HcjkW5MfMtxgNTFRCw= =TaV+ —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Response:

Lash Rambo wrote in news:Xns96C3A350FF8E1lrfakeaddrcom@68.1.17.6: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Troll wrote in > news:Xns96C32CCCD17E9eh3du@localhost: >> "shyguy" wrote in news:1125451707.567042.198040 >> @g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: >>> Looks like even though I am scared of needles and surgery, I am >>> scheduling a vasectomy. I told my wife I would do this rather than >>> her to have to go through getting her tubes tied which is a more >>> serious procedure. Has anyone here ever had it? Is it that bad. I >>> know I dont want nay more kids but something about KNOWING you never >>> will have another kid bothers me. Is somethign happens to my wife >>> and I’s relationship, will being infertile hurt my chances of >>> marrying again? >> Don’t do it. Use condoms and get her on the pill instead. Why hurt >> yourself? > Depo shots would be even better if her body can handle them. She’ll > only need to get one once every three months (instead of having to > remember to take a pill every day), she won’t have to deal with > menstruation while on them, and they can reduce the chances of getting > certain sex organ cancers (or slow their growth if she already has > them). Price is competitive with the pill, and I believe Depo is > statistically more effective. Some women take Depo even if they’re > not sexually active just for the side benefits.

It makes some women seriously fat, that’s one of the problems.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Lash Rambo wrote: > William P wrote >> Lash Rambo wrote >>> Troll wrote >>>> "shyguy" wrote >>>>> Looks like even though I am scared of needles and surgery, I am >>>>> scheduling a vasectomy. I told my wife I would do this rather than >>>>> her to have to go through getting her tubes tied which is a more >>>>> serious procedure. Has anyone here ever had it? Is it that bad. I >>>>> know I dont want nay more kids but something about KNOWING you >>>>> never will have another kid bothers me. Is somethign happens to >>>>> my wife and I’s relationship, will being infertile hurt my >>>>> chances of marrying again? >>>> Don’t do it. Use condoms and get her on the pill instead. Why hurt >>>> yourself? >>> Depo shots would be even better if her body can handle them. She’ll >>> only need to get one once every three months (instead of having to >>> remember to take a pill every day), she won’t have to deal with >>> menstruation while on them, and they can reduce the chances of >>> getting certain sex organ cancers (or slow their growth if she >>> already has them). Price is competitive with the pill, and I >>> believe Depo is statistically more effective. Some women take Depo >>> even if they’re not sexually active just for the side benefits. >> It makes some women seriously fat, that’s one of the problems. > Yep, I know of one such case (poor woman put on 50 pounds within two > or three months). I don’t know how common such cases are. Still, I > think it’d be worth a shot. Don could strike a deal: "You try Depo > for three months, and if you have serious negative side effects, then > you stop and I’ll get the vasectomy." Sounds fair to me.

I wouldn’t stress *too much* on side effects in case it gives her any ideas. – Michaela

Response:

I think a great number of losers should get vasectomies, so that they stop producing so many children they don’t care about in the first place.

Response:

"Russ" wrote in news:1125604956.040355.181300 @g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > I think a great number of losers should get vasectomies, so that they > stop producing so many children they don’t care about in the first > place.

Sadly, to have that kind of foresight in the first place would negate their loserdom.

Response:

William P wrote in news:Xns96C4757FA4201willdotpsympaticodot@204.153.244.170: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Lash Rambo wrote in > news:Xns96C3A350FF8E1lrfakeaddrcom@68.1.17.6: >> Troll wrote in >> news:Xns96C32CCCD17E9eh3du@localhost: >>> "shyguy" wrote in news:1125451707.567042.198040 >>> @g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: >>>> Looks like even though I am scared of needles and surgery, I am >>>> scheduling a vasectomy. I told my wife I would do this rather than >>>> her to have to go through getting her tubes tied which is a more >>>> serious procedure. Has anyone here ever had it? Is it that bad. I >>>> know I dont want nay more kids but something about KNOWING you never >>>> will have another kid bothers me. Is somethign happens to my wife >>>> and I’s relationship, will being infertile hurt my chances of >>>> marrying again? >>> Don’t do it. Use condoms and get her on the pill instead. Why hurt >>> yourself? >> Depo shots would be even better if her body can handle them. She’ll >> only need to get one once every three months (instead of having to >> remember to take a pill every day), she won’t have to deal with >> menstruation while on them, and they can reduce the chances of getting >> certain sex organ cancers (or slow their growth if she already has >> them). Price is competitive with the pill, and I believe Depo is >> statistically more effective. Some women take Depo even if they’re >> not sexually active just for the side benefits. > It makes some women seriously fat, that’s one of the problems.

Yep, I know of one such case (poor woman put on 50 pounds within two or three months). I don’t know how common such cases are. Still, I think it’d be worth a shot. Don could strike a deal: "You try Depo for three months, and if you have serious negative side effects, then you stop and I’ll get the vasectomy." Sounds fair to me.

Response:

Can’t make this decision for you, but consider what happened to me. My first husband thought the same way you do, our family was complete as far as he was concerned and he did it for me because it was easier. Later we divorced. Now he can’t start a family with a new wife without going through surgery again. Even then it’s "iffy". Keeping in mind I can’t predict case-by-case how women will react to your being sterile, I can however say that with a young woman who wanted to start a family one day it would present problems. That’s simple enough to predict. If something is bothering you about this, you need to pay attention to that feeling. Such a drastic decision is like amputating when a Bandaid would do. As for the procedure, it’s not pleasant. My former husband was awake but numb. He felt a pulling sensation in his abdomen which constricted the muscles all the way to his anus, and smelled the smoke when the doctor cauterized. This was very sore afterward. He was swollen and found it hard to walk for a day or two, and was given pain medicine. He didn’t seem to suffer any major pain or long term physical problems with it.

Response:

> Is somethign happens to my wife and I’s > relationship, will being infertile hurt my chances of marrying again?

You are not making sense. If this hypothetical future wife wants children, why would you marry her anyway? You just said you don’t want anymore children. Are you saying that the future wife will marry you if don’t want children, but reject you if you are infertile? You need a spine. You are allowing yourself to be controlled by women. Consider if YOU want more children – that’s what matters. Not whether some potential future wife might want them.

Response:

Good for you! If you really don’t want anymore then get it done. If something happens to your wife you will still have your existing children. If you were to be in a situation to date again, you would just have to be upfront about not wanting any more children. Not everyone wants children.

Response:

Looks like even though I am scared of needles and surgery, I am scheduling a vasectomy. I told my wife I would do this rather than her to have to go through getting her tubes tied which is a more serious procedure. Has anyone here ever had it? Is it that bad. I know I dont want nay more kids but something about KNOWING you never will have another kid bothers me. Is somethign happens to my wife and I’s relationship, will being infertile hurt my chances of marrying again?

Response:

Question about vasectomy and wife

admin — Sun, 19 Jul 2009 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

> This is going to sound stupid but did your wife "not want you" as much > after you were now infertile? Seems like I have heard that this can > happen subconciously. > Did anyone get a divorce shorlty after a vasectomy? i now someone that > did. (I am not saying this is why).

So many things cause strife between partners – is it *ever* possible to say just one thing was the cause? To generalise a bit:- The vast majority of men report that vasectomy did not make any diference to their relationship, or enhanced it. Reading between the lines a bit, I’d suggest that the reason being that in the vast majority of cases the decision was a) un-pressured, b) considered and c) both partners were equally positive about having it done. A trawl through the various studies and surveys that have been done tend to suggest that satisfaction with vasectomy is high when the couple have taken time to think it through, there isn’t any pressure from either partner, it’s been fully discussed and good counselling has been provided. On the flip side of the coin, satisfaction tends to be poor where one or other partner feels excluded from the decision (leading to later resentment), where the decision was made for the wrong reasons, where pressure was applied and where counselling (that should highlight the above) was poor. I’d suggest it might be worth looking into how the decision was made. Unfortunately pressure to have it done, exclusion from the decision making process, and not thinking it through are not uncommon. It may be that she feels some resentment for not being fully part of the decision, it may be that they didn’t consider fully the implications of being sterile, and it may be nothing to do with the vasectomy. I guess that the vasectomy could have been a trigger, much along the lines of "The straw that broke the camel’s back". David www.vasectomy-information.com

Response:

This is going to sound stupid but did your wife "not want you" as much after you were now infertile? Seems like I have heard that this can happen subconciously. Did anyone get a divorce shorlty after a vasectomy? i now someone that did. (I am not saying this is why).

Response:

ALWAYSLONE…@HOTMAIL.COM (Danny) wrote in message … > This is going to sound stupid but did your wife "not want you" as much > after you were now infertile? Seems like I have heard that this can > happen subconciously. > Did anyone get a divorce shorlty after a vasectomy? i now someone that > did. (I am not saying this is why).

That happened to me. My wife doesn’t find me as attractive…whether this is a subconscious thing or not I’m not sure at this point but it is definitely affected our marriage.

Response:

Overweight women 30% more likely to be infertile

admin — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Overweight women are 30 percent more likely to be infertile than women of a normal weight, a Hong Kong expert said in a report published on Monday. The chances of infertility can be up to 170 percent higher than usual among women who are so overweight that they are technically obese, the expert said. Carina Chan of the University of Hong Kong’s department of obstetrics and gynaecology told the South China Morning Post increasing numbers of women were being treated for infertility. The Queen Mary Hospital, the University of Hong Kong’s teaching hospital, admits 1 300 patients a year with infertility problems compared to 300 a year in 1993. "Obesity is one of the factors," Chan said, adding that one in four Hong Kong women is now either overweight or obese. Overweight women are also more likely to have miscarriages, having a 15 percent chance compared with an 11 percent chance among women of normal weight, she said. Levels of obesity have climbed sharply in Hong Kong in the past three decades with experts blaming the switch to a more Western diet, long office hours and sedentary lifestyles. – Sapa-dpa

Response:

Overweight women are 30 percent more likely to be infertile than women of a normal weight, a Hong Kong expert said in a report published on Monday.

saves money because there’s no need for the pill Geez, there is a huge I’m-an-obesity-troll wave going on again or what? Go and sue some fat people for wasting your prescious tax money instead of littering NGs.

Response:

chance of pregnancy

admin — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Hi, > Im wondering if anyone knows the chance of pregnancy within the first yr of > a vascetomy reversal if the reversal is done 3 yrs after is was done

I think you are asking two question in one here! The success of vasectomy reversal, and the chances of getting pregnant. "Successful" reversal means that live swimmers pass from the testicles, through the plumbing and out the end and can be counted. Getting pregnant – a whole different question! Firstly, the chances of restoring live sperm back into the ejaculate are good. Most reversal specialists will quote the odds of this happening as over 80%, and there is evidence to back this up. The chances tail off the older you are, and the further from the original vasectomy you are. You didn’t say how old you are, but within 5 years the rates of successfully restoring live sperm to the ejaculate tend to be in the 80% area. Now – getting pregnant. There are a *lot* of variables here, so nobody can really predict this, but the chances are often quoted as 60%. However, nobody tends to give a "How long" figure. Let’s face it, in fertile couples that haven’t had sterilisation surgery getting pregnant is a lottery! The variables include age of both partners, *if* it’s with the same partner the chances are higher, length of time since vasectomy to start with. Then come the antisperm antibodies. After vasectomy, these increase. The effect of them is to lessen the chances of pregnancy post reversal. Anti sperm antibodies (ASA) are oft-mentioned in infertility research, and I guess these are the reason that pregnancy is more likely post reversal if you have the same partners. The female partners reproductive system adapts to the male ASA’s – a bit like the reason pre-eclampsia doesn’t tend to strike the second time around. So, to sum up. Statistically the chances of restoring sperm are around the 80% mark, and statistically the chances of getting pregnant at some point post-reversal are about 60% with luck, and a fair wind behind! You might like to check out the reversal stories at the website (below), and take a look at the medical journals page – there are studies on reversal that may be of interest. Good luck! David www.vasectomy-information.com

Response:

Im wondering if anyone knows the chance of pregnancy within the first yr of a vascetomy reversal if the reversal is done 3 yrs after is was done thanks

Response:

infertility treatment using donor eggs

admin — Fri, 02 Jan 2009 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

My wife and I want to try for a baby using donor eggs. We are both in our early 40s, and we have left it too late to have children without assistance. We are British, but live in Hong Kong, so we are probably looking at coming to the US for help. We are both overwhelmed with the number of agencies offering this kind of service in the US, and we have no means of judging which are competent and well-meaning and which are just in it for the money. Although money is not really a problem, we would both, for obvious reasons, like to keep the taint of commerce out of this area of our lives as much as possible (while of course recognising that being an egg donor is a big and generous step which demands fair reward). Has anyone been through this process? Can you recommend somewhere we can turn to? Does anyone have any experience of issues affecting non-US-residents such as ourselves in coming to the States for this service? Any information you can offer would be very gratefully received. Jimbo

Response:

You may want to also look into going to Russia. The quaility of care is good and the prices are cheaper than US.

Response:

67 percent of women by 40 are infertile

admin — Sat, 24 Dec 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Visi Caulk Mah Pnats wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> LisatheSequel wrote: >>Visi Caulk Mah Pnats wrote: >>>Troll wrote: >>>>bishop13…@yahoo.com wrote in news:1135477746.146305.199060 >>>>@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com: >>>>>Keep this in mind when planning your life. 40 yrs old is hagdom >>>>>for a female. they look ok all dressed up with makeup and hair >>>>>dye but you wont want to stay with them very long. most guys >>>>>dump their wives around 36. i know some of you are thinking we >>>>>live to be 90 so we have lots of time. the truth is that we >>>>>have a very small window. >>>>Very true. There are a few who have the right genes and don’t >>>>smoke and drink and reach 40 still being beautiful, but this is >>>>the exception. Females usually look at celebrities who have a >>>>budget for their training, diet and plastic surgery and cosmetics >>>>and think they can do the same thing. But in practice they get >>>>frustrated when they approach 30 and see their looks fading >>>>rapidly and they get mad because much fewer men bother with them, >>>>and smiling won’t allow them to get away with everything anymore, >>>>and their uterus screams to be fed with sperm. >>>damn you are going all out in the nonsense dept today >>>didn’t an older woman reject you a while back. >>No, no, he’s got a point. My uterus certainly screams for sperm >>every now and then. Listen. You can hear it now: >>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAso thAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRGHFFFRRRRGGAAAAAA!!! > LMAO!!!11 > so that is what those doggie style noises really mean? > I bought one of those high tech uterus alarm clocks. It is set to > scream every time it needs a hot load of sperm. :p

*LOL!* :D :D :D I need me one of those!

Response:

> sometimes people love eash other and they get married and several years > later they try to have kids but cant and it isn’t always the woman’s > fault either. Most people dont divorce but work out other options.

I’m just trying to be as optimistic as I can be for now. :-)

Response:

>people stay married for religious, social, and economic reasons. the >point is that a female is a worthless dried up hag by 40. Why the fuck >are you trying sabotage this very important fucken lesson which may >save someone 50 yrs of suffering. There is no social pressure to stay >married now and guys pull the pin at 35. you should feel sorry for your >poor father who was trapped in a marriage with a hag. you are a cancer >on this group.

About 60% of the people who get married stay married and I seriously doubt that most of them are as miserable as, say;a 39 year old bipolar who spends his entire life online bitching about women, who lives with his mother, who can’t get a job, etc. You know who I’m talking about – don’t you? No matter how often you change identities – you will always give yourself away. I’ve seen some pretty good-looking 40 year old women. ZenDog

Response:

Troll wrote in news:Xns9737EC9AF9C0Feh3du@localhost: > bishop13…@yahoo.com wrote in news:1135489215.856386.190240 > @g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: >> people stay married for religious, social, and economic reasons. the >> point is that a female is a worthless dried up hag by 40. Why the fuck >> are you trying sabotage this very important fucken lesson which may >> save someone 50 yrs of suffering. There is no social pressure to stay >> married now and guys pull the pin at 35. you should feel sorry for your >> poor father who was trapped in a marriage with a hag. you are a cancer >> on this group. > What do you think of this middle-aged female? > http://www.larryscott.net/images/Hothead%20%201%20class.jpg

I’d do at least three out of seven people at that table. Maybe 4.

Response:

bishop13…@yahoo.com wrote: > people stay married for religious, social, and economic reasons. the > point is that a female is a worthless dried up hag by 40. Why the fuck > are you trying sabotage this very important fucken lesson which may > save someone 50 yrs of suffering. There is no social pressure to stay > married now and guys pull the pin at 35. you should feel sorry for your > poor father who was trapped in a marriage with a hag. you are a cancer > on this group.

Not only are you not shy, you aren’t even a good troll, not even worthy of sucking up to the usual suspects here. Why don’t you kindly fuck off.

Response:

The truth is that your husband stop having sex with you and started being miserable forcing you to leave. You are are a disgrace.

Response:

bishop13…@yahoo.com wrote: > Keep this in mind when planning your life. 40 yrs old is hagdom for a > female. they look ok all dressed up with makeup and hair dye but you > wont want to stay with them very long. most guys dump their wives > around 36. i know some of you are thinking we live to be 90 so we have > lots of time. the truth is that we have a very small window.

Most women are infertile by age 35 due to contracting human papilloma virus (HPV). Many develop cancer due to HPV and have to have hysterectomies. Such are the wages of sin. Ladies, you can’t whore around without having consequences. Society may encourage it and make accomodations for women’s whorish behavior, but nature will not.

Response:

wrote in message

news:1135489215.856386.190240@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com… > people stay married for religious, social, and economic reasons. the > point is that a female is a worthless dried up hag by 40.

I just know that one day I’ll have women like that showing interest in me. I’ll just have to tell them very clearly. "If you can’t or won’t give me children, you are no use to me."

Response:

> wrote in message news :1135489215.856386.190240 @ g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com… >> people stay married for religious, social, and economic reasons. the point is that a female is a worthless dried up hag by 40. > Pumpkinhead wrote: >> I just know that one day I’ll have women like that showing interest in me. I’ll just have to tell them very clearly. "If you can’t or won’t give me children, you are no use to me."

Visi Caulk Mah Pnats wrote: > that is silly. > there are plenty of kouples of all ages that kant have kids. they dont find out until after they are married.

He wants children. There is nothing wrong with that decision.

Response:

Visi Caulk Mah Pnats wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Pumpkinhead wrote: >> wrote in message >>news:1135489215.856386.190240@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com… >>>people stay married for religious, social, and economic reasons. the >>>point is that a female is a worthless dried up hag by 40. >>I just know that one day I’ll have women like that showing interest >>in me. I’ll just have to tell them very clearly. "If you can’t or >>won’t give me children, you are no use to me." > that is silly. > there are plenty of kouples of all ages that kant have kids. they dont > find out until after they are married.

If he wants kids and they can’t give him that he is better off telling them that right away, -M

Response:

Visi Caulk Mah Pnats wrote: > Mickey wrote: >>If he wants kids and they can’t give him that he is better off >>telling them that right away, >>-M > what is he is the one who cant father a kid?

That’s certainly possible but that isn’t what we are talking about here. -M

Response:

Visi Caulk Mah Pnats wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Troll wrote: >>bishop13…@yahoo.com wrote in news:1135477746.146305.199060 >>@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com: >>>Keep this in mind when planning your life. 40 yrs old is hagdom for >>>a female. they look ok all dressed up with makeup and hair dye but >>>you wont want to stay with them very long. most guys dump their >>>wives around 36. i know some of you are thinking we live to be 90 >>>so we have lots of time. the truth is that we have a very small >>>window. >>Very true. There are a few who have the right genes and don’t smoke >>and drink and reach 40 still being beautiful, but this is the >>exception. Females usually look at celebrities who have a budget for >>their training, diet and plastic surgery and cosmetics and think they >>can do the same thing. But in practice they get frustrated when they >>approach 30 and see their looks fading rapidly and they get mad >>because much fewer men bother with them, and smiling won’t allow them >>to get away with everything anymore, and their uterus screams to be >>fed with sperm. > damn you are going all out in the nonsense dept today > didn’t an older woman reject you a while back.

No, no, he’s got a point. My uterus certainly screams for sperm every now and then. Listen. You can hear it now: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRGHFFFRRRRGGAAAAAA!!!

Response:

people stay married for religious, social, and economic reasons. the point is that a female is a worthless dried up hag by 40. Why the fuck are you trying sabotage this very important fucken lesson which may save someone 50 yrs of suffering. There is no social pressure to stay married now and guys pull the pin at 35. you should feel sorry for your poor father who was trapped in a marriage with a hag. you are a cancer on this group.

Response:

Keep this in mind when planning your life. 40 yrs old is hagdom for a female. they look ok all dressed up with makeup and hair dye but you wont want to stay with them very long. most guys dump their wives around 36. i know some of you are thinking we live to be 90 so we have lots of time. the truth is that we have a very small window.

Response:

"Most guys…" Do you have any reliable statistics to back up what appears to be a ridiculous assertion? My grandparents on my dad’s side were married for 52 years before my grandfather died and on the maternal side the marriage is going on 60 years. I know lots of other people happily married for years. Sorry it didn’t work out for you but its not the same sad story for everyone.

Response:

Cancer survivors face inadequate post-treatment care…..

admin — Wed, 09 Nov 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Most of Americans who survive cancer face a bleary life after their therapy is over, a 15-member panel, by the Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council of the National Academies, said in a report. Besides depression, heart troubles, fatigue, frail health, and, to top it all, fear of relapse, cancer survivors battle the burden of health care and in many cases, this is compounded by the loss of their jobs, the report said. While 11 per cent of adult cancer survivors, under the age of 65 years, have no health insurance, around 20 per cent of those who battled cancer effectively were unable to continue working because of their ill health. Considering the fact that every year around 10 million Americans survive cancer, the figures could be staggering. Other problems plaguing cancer survivors include infertility, sexual dysfunction, osteoporosis, and heart troubles. Post-treatment care is a gray area that needs to be addressed, said Dr Sheldon Greenfield, who chaired the panel. "The numbers are huge. At least 10 million people are in this category, we now know from this committee. Their care is very haphazard; they are often completely lost. About 40 per cent or so of them never see an oncologist after treatment. There are wide variations in their care," Dr Greenfield said. The report, called From Cancer Patient to Cancer Survivor: Lost in Transition, has urged doctors and health workers to create greater awareness about post-treatment care for cancer victims, so that they can lead a healthier and happier life after the trauma of fighting the dreaded disease. Ellen Stovall, one of the authors of the report, said post-treatment care summaries should come with greater and more structured information about the type, stage and grade of the tumor, the dates of treatment and the therapies and services that a patient has undergone, as also the contact details and name of the person the patients should look at for after-cancer healthcare. According to the report, cancer survivors below the age of 64 years end up spending more than twice the expenditure by healthy individuals, mainly because insurance companies and health plans fall short of covering tests and examinations required for such patients. "We do a great job in addressing the acute need, but when patients get three, four, five years and beyond, they continue to experience issues and problems and may feel neglected," said Anne Meisner of Cancer Treatment Centers of America. Among other recommendations, the report advocates the inclusion of details like recommended cancer screening tests, side effects of cancer treatment, signs to watch out for relapse, impact on career and family life, detailed contacts for financial, legal and employment assistance, guidelines for healthy life, rehabilitation advice, and also details of support groups, in the follow-up plan. Welcoming the report, the American Society of Clinical Oncology’s Dr Patricia A Ganz said, "Millions of patients are living with cancer as a chronic condition and need good long-term follow-up care. An internist or family doctor may send hundreds of patients for a biopsy or colonoscopies, but in many cases they know little about the treatment their patients receive for cancer." American Society of Clinical Oncology is a body representing over 20,000 cancer specialists in the United States. knowledge is power – growing old is mandatory – growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc

Response:

(snip) Thanks, Curtis. I posted a link to the original report on November 7 on the thread, "From Cancer Patient to Cancer Survivor: Lost in Transition." Regards, Steve J

Response:

Most of Americans who survive cancer face a bleary life after their therapy is over, a 15-member panel, by the Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council of the National Academies, said in a report. (snip) Thanks, Curtis. I posted a link to the original report on November 7 on the thread, "From Cancer Patient to Cancer Survivor: Lost in Transition." Regards, Steve J

Response:

sorry steve – it slipped by me. i try not to duplicate and want to make sure you get the credit for the post. ~ curtis knowledge is power – growing old is mandatory – growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc

Response:

A handy comeback

admin — Thu, 25 Aug 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

"I’ve never seen you with a woman. Are you gay?" "I’ve never seen you read a book. Are you illiterate?"

Response:

"Jim Winters" wrote in news:1125027267.103446.249230@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com: > "I’ve never seen you with a woman. Are you gay?" > "I’ve never seen you read a book. Are you illiterate?"

That’s pretty good, although I think illiteracy is more socially acceptable than homosexuality at the moment.

Response:

Lash Rambo wrote in news:Xns96BEA6C6244Dlrfakeaddrcom@68.1.17.6: > "Jim Winters" wrote in > news:1125027267.103446.249230@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com: >> "I’ve never seen you with a woman. Are you gay?" >> "I’ve never seen you read a book. Are you illiterate?" > That’s pretty good, although I think illiteracy is more socially > acceptable than homosexuality at the moment.

Definitely. What good is literacy if you’re a fucking homo? You need to read the text on gay porn sites? Homophobia is on the rise in popular culture, I think.

Response:

William wrote… > Homophobia is on the rise in popular culture, I think.

How? And why do you think that is?

Response:

"Eve de Villette" wrote in news:1125058882.980750.86740@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > William wrote… >> Homophobia is on the rise in popular culture, I think. > How? And why do you think that is?

It’s just an intuition. An example would be in recent movies like Wedding Crashers where you have a gay character with no redeeming features and whose purpose is to provide "you’re a homo!" gags. Or all the "I know you’re gay because" stuff in 40 Year Old Virgin. It’s not that homosexuality is being poked fun at, it’s that it seems like most often it is fun entirely as a stereotype with no intelligence or sympathy. It’s like now if there is a gay character in something it’s always a stock stereotype, and not someone who’s gay among other stuff. It also might be my imagination, in other internet places I’ve been, it seems like there isn’t any serious opposition to people calling each other faggot and such, where I think there used to be quite a bit 10 years ago. (This ould be an indication of the internet being more like the mainstream though.) For why (if it’s even true) there is a bit of a depressing rise in religious fundamentalism, around this half of the world anyway. It could be related to that. Perspective of course is that pretty recently (was it in the 1970s?) homosexuality was considered a mental disorder that required treatment or medication according to DSM.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -William P wrote: > Lash Rambo wrote in > news:Xns96BEA6C6244Dlrfakeaddrcom@68.1.17.6: > > "Jim Winters" wrote in > > news:1125027267.103446.249230@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com: > >> "I’ve never seen you with a woman. Are you gay?" > >> "I’ve never seen you read a book. Are you illiterate?" > > That’s pretty good, although I think illiteracy is more socially > > acceptable than homosexuality at the moment. > Definitely. What good is literacy if you’re a fucking homo? You need to > read the text on gay porn sites? > Homophobia is on the rise in popular culture, I think.

Don’t think so.. it’s just that people are less concious about talking about it, especially on the net. And more threatend by it (will explain). I’m sure well over 50% of the population is to some extent "homophobic" – and by it i mean primarily fear not hate of – (anyone who is bothered/insulted by the possiblity of being labeled gay here is, imo), so it’s not abnormal, it’s just to what extent media/education is able to control the public’s stance on the issue. As groups try to push homosexualy on an equality level with sexuality (legally/socially), they’ll hit a brick wall. Because people’s tolerance to homosexuality is not based on "it’s normal" (many people including me, why not be frank, don’t think that), but on "it’s their buisness and dosen’t hurt anyone". But people’s position on heterosexuality, and society’s protection/legal rights of such couples is based on the need to reproduce/protect/raise children, and ultimatly survival of the species (even if that’s not always conscious). So it’s natural that people as a group will have a very strong reaction to percieved threats to that. Two total different things – so it’s no wonder the more groups try to push "equality" between straight and gay couples (legally / with respect to their "right" to raise children, etc..), the more this changes people’s opinion on homosexuality’s harmlesess, and will trigger this society’s defense mechanism that is ultimately homophobia – people’s natural "alarm bells" go off. (ofc when they do in someone’s that crazy and don’t use reason, they’re going to do crazy things, but homophobia in itself is not crazy not even abnormal) People call it homophobia to use it as a persuasion weapon, but a phobia is really a fear that *hurts the one that has it* in some way, upsets his normal ability to function, like Social Phobia for example.. which is not the case.

Response:

"William P" wrote in message

news:Xns96BE87F68AD53willdotpsympaticodot@204.153.244.170… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Eve de Villette" wrote in > news:1125058882.980750.86740@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: >> William wrote… >>> Homophobia is on the rise in popular culture, I think. >> How? And why do you think that is? > It’s just an intuition. An example would be in recent movies like > Wedding Crashers where you have a gay character with no redeeming > features and whose purpose is to provide "you’re a homo!" gags. Or all > the "I know you’re gay because" stuff in 40 Year Old Virgin. > It’s not that homosexuality is being poked fun at, it’s that it seems > like most often it is fun entirely as a stereotype with no intelligence > or sympathy. It’s like now if there is a gay character in something it’s > always a stock stereotype, and not someone who’s gay among other stuff. > It also might be my imagination, in other internet places I’ve been, it > seems like there isn’t any serious opposition to people calling each > other faggot and such, where I think there used to be quite a bit 10 > years ago. (This ould be an indication of the internet being more like > the mainstream though.) > For why (if it’s even true) there is a bit of a depressing rise in > religious fundamentalism, around this half of the world anyway. It could > be related to that. Perspective of course is that pretty recently (was > it in the 1970s?) homosexuality was considered a mental disorder that > required treatment or medication according to DSM.

Hi William, i agree with you but i don’t think it’s entirely the straight media’s fault. So many guys in the gay community act just like the stereotype that it makes me cringe. William, While it’s nice to see your posts again as they are always well written i wonder what your real reason was for coming back here. Aren’t things going well for you? tom

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -William wrote… > It’s just an intuition. An example would be in recent movies like > Wedding Crashers where you have a gay character with no redeeming > features and whose purpose is to provide "you’re a homo!" gags. Or all > the "I know you’re gay because" stuff in 40 Year Old Virgin. > It’s not that homosexuality is being poked fun at, it’s that it seems > like most often it is fun entirely as a stereotype with no intelligence > or sympathy. It’s like now if there is a gay character in something it’s > always a stock stereotype, and not someone who’s gay among other stuff. > It also might be my imagination, in other internet places I’ve been, it > seems like there isn’t any serious opposition to people calling each > other faggot and such, where I think there used to be quite a bit 10 > years ago. (This ould be an indication of the internet being more like > the mainstream though.) > For why (if it’s even true) there is a bit of a depressing rise in > religious fundamentalism, around this half of the world anyway. It could > be related to that. Perspective of course is that pretty recently (was > it in the 1970s?) homosexuality was considered a mental disorder that > required treatment or medication according to DSM.

Perhaps some of it is partly because homosexuals feel more accepted/’safer’, and are less sensitive now about such things, hence less likely to make a fuss? The change is that there _are_ quite many openly gay characters though. Perhaps it’s that they are ‘accepted but not loved’? I’d say there’s been a popular backlash towards PC stuff in general. The internet with its lack of censorship helps, of course.

Response:

"Xile" wrote in news:1125080181.276895.16390@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com: >> Homophobia is on the rise in popular culture, I think. > Don’t think so.. it’s just that people are less concious about talking > about it, especially on the net. And more threatend by it (will > explain).

I don’t get the feeling that people are less conscious about talking about it. Compared to the 1970’s, yeah. Compared to 10-15 years ago I’m not sure. It seems to me like homosexuality in pop culture now is kind of like the "Blaxploitation" stuff from the 70’s, where you have characters and scenarios that are supposed to funny because they’re black, and with nothing deeper than that. Later on, you had stuff like the Cosby Show and Fresh Prince of Bel Air, where the "blackness" is a fundamental part of it but it’s less about hey, that guy talks funny, listens to funny music and has funny hair. I thought I saw some of that treatment of it back in the 80’s and early 90’s. I wonder if something like Kids in the Hall could exist right now and if people would still think it was funny. Is there something like that right now in popular culture? I’ll admit I’m totally out of the loop. Another example would be the Ellen Degeneres thing. At the time, the mood about that seemed pretty supportive, and now she’s solely a punchline, and there’s no respect involved. > I’m sure well over 50% of the population is to some extent > "homophobic" – and by it i mean primarily fear not hate of – (anyone > who is bothered/insulted by the possiblity of being labeled gay here > is, imo), so it’s not abnormal, it’s just to what extent > media/education is able to control the public’s stance on the issue. > As groups try to push homosexualy on an equality level with sexuality > (legally/socially), they’ll hit a brick wall. Because people’s > tolerance to homosexuality is not based on "it’s normal" (many people > including me, why not be frank, don’t think that),

It quite obviously is normal. I’m not going to bother debating that, so we’re both just going to have to agree that you’re wrong here. (It’s possible that homophobia is normal too in the sense of an innate distrust, but I don’t know.) > but on "it’s their > buisness and dosen’t hurt anyone". > But people’s position on heterosexuality, and society’s > protection/legal rights of such couples is based on the need to > reproduce/protect/raise children, and ultimatly survival of the > species (even if that’s not always conscious).

It’s not really about that. It’s a common justification, but that’s all it is. Nobody is campaigning to eliminate marriage for infertile women, or couples who have no plans for children, although those would make equally good sense. People are interested in "protecting" their children from being gay, that’s true. There’s also a very strong sense that because it’s a sin in the Bible, it is a Christian duty to be intolerant. (This attitude isn’t totally about the Bible, because there is clearly a lot of stuff in there that nobody cares about, but it’s another good justification.) I think the biggest reason of all is basic sexual puritanism. Some of that is innate. Really though, defending policies because they do or don’t go along with genetic or cultural instinct just seems so absolutely stupid to me. Acting on genetic instinct leads to the stone age. > So it’s natural that > people as a group will have a very strong reaction to percieved > threats to that. Two total different things – so it’s no wonder the > more groups try to push "equality" between straight and gay couples > (legally / with respect to their "right" to raise children, etc..), > the more this changes people’s opinion on homosexuality’s harmlesess, > and will trigger this society’s defense mechanism that is ultimately > homophobia – people’s natural "alarm bells" go off. (ofc when they do > in someone’s that crazy and don’t use reason, they’re going to do > crazy things, but homophobia in itself is not crazy not even abnormal) > People call it homophobia to use it as a persuasion weapon, but a > phobia is really a fear that *hurts the one that has it* in some way, > upsets his normal ability to function, like Social Phobia for > example.. which is not the case.

So if you want to put homophobia in a category with xenophobia, I’m not going to argue with that. It makes great genetic sense to object to people who compete with us and look very different from raising children (or from existing, for that matter.) Whether something is natural or not is a really crappy foundation for whether it is a good idea. This is so painfully obvious that I’m not interested in debating it at all, but clearly very few people get this point. The secular cases against gay rights are extremely weak, from what I’ve seen. For instance, I don’t think you could actually demonstrate that babies adopted by gay couples are worse off then if they had been left in foster care systems.

Response:

"fallout" wrote in news:MuGdnSoG1MRP9pLeRVn-tg@comcast.com: > Hi William, i agree with you but i don’t think it’s entirely the > straight media’s fault. So many guys in the gay community act just > like the stereotype that it makes me cringe. > William, While it’s nice to see your posts again as they are always > well written i wonder what your real reason was for coming back here. > Aren’t things going well for you?

Hi Tom, I wouldn’t agree that my posts are all well written. But I’m a pretty quick witted troll I have to admit. Things are going fine for me. I don’t think I have any shyness issues that I care about right now. I’m at a point where I vaguely feel like I should grow up, and on one level would really like to solve the other major issue in my life besides shyness/women, which is procrastination and productivity. But overall I’m pretty content (mostly). I’ll leave this place as soon as it leads to things like over-emotional reactions, anger, depression, frustration and internet relay chat.

Response:

"void *" wrote in news:hPmdnZ2dnZ0TX8_ 5nZ2dnY0qkt6dnZ2dRVnyoZ2d…@pipex.net: > "William P" wrote in message > news:Xns96BE87F68AD53willdotpsympaticodot@204.153.244.170… >> It also might be my imagination, in other internet places I’ve been, it >> seems like there isn’t any serious opposition to people calling each >> other faggot and such > Stop hanging out in CS forums!

u gay ass n00b i did yo mommma last night! g3t sum skillz & stop whining pussy! — "But," he added, "I think it’s also important for me to go on with my life, to keep a balanced life." George The-Buck-Stops-Elsewhere Bush.

Response:

"Xile" wrote in news:1125080181.276895.16390 @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com: > But people’s position on heterosexuality, and society’s > protection/legal rights of such couples is based on the need to > reproduce/protect/raise children, and ultimatly survival of the species > (even if that’s not always conscious). So it’s natural that people as a > group will have a very strong reaction to percieved threats to that.

Total wank. — "But," he added, "I think it’s also important for me to go on with my life, to keep a balanced life." George The-Buck-Stops-Elsewhere Bush.

Response:

i’ve never seen you w/ a man, you must be a lesbo… & you are the alternative? h

Response:

"Jim Winters" in news:1125027267.103446.249230@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com: >"I’ve never seen you with a woman. Are you gay?" >"I’ve never seen you read a book. Are you illiterate?"

or… "i’ve never seen you come up with a plausible question. are you always so wrong?"

Response:

"William P" wrote in message

news:Xns96BF2E87C1C82willdotpsympaticodot@204.153.244.170… > "void *" wrote in > news:q5KdnZ2dnZ35qVTKnZ2dnTeCjd6dnZ2dRVnyq52dnZ0@pipex.net: > > "William P" wrote in message > > news:Xns96BEE4DD38D8willdotpsympaticodot@204.153.244.170… > > > I don’t understand. You’re pointing me toward linear expulsions of > > > proto-stellar gas? > > Oh, has the link goofed? > > http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt.support.shyness/msg/b85171e56b81e0 > > 65 > You’re link is okay I’m just dropping some fairly advanced ass science.

Oh of course, the handle! Gosh my brain must be getting slow(er), I heard a joke yesterday which took me aaagggeeesss to get: Q: Why do Marxists drink herb tea? A: Because property is theft.

Response:

"void *" wrote in news:tqydnRwDsLC5uo3eRVnyjA@pipex.net: >> You’re link is okay I’m just dropping some fairly advanced ass >> science. > Oh of course, the handle! Gosh my brain must be getting slow(er), I > heard a joke yesterday which took me aaagggeeesss to get: > Q: Why do Marxists drink herb tea? > A: Because property is theft.

Hah, good one! That took me about 5 minutes.

Response:

"void *" wrote in news:q5KdnZ2dnZ35qVTKnZ2dnTeCjd6dnZ2dRVnyq52dnZ0@pipex.net: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "William P" wrote in message > news:Xns96BEE4DD38D8willdotpsympaticodot@204.153.244.170… >> "void *" wrote in >> news:LvednZ2dnZ31JuCVnZ2dnbAqkt6dnZ2dRVny3Z2dnZ0@pipex.net: >> > "William P" wrote in message >> > news:Xns96BEBEAAAEEA8willdotpsympaticodot@204.153.244.170… >> > > Lash Rambo wrote in >> > > news:Xns96BEB2EE09877lrfakeaddrcom@68.1.17.6: >> > > > Although I never quit my job to be on IRC, I did pretend to be >> > > > a woman (and some poor schmuck’s girlfriend) on there for long >> > > > enough I started having dreams where I was a woman, so maybe >> > > > we’re even. >> > > > (I only wish I was joking about this.) >> > > (Meg is that you??!?) >> > > Did I ever meet you on IRC? You sure know a lot more about me >> > > than I know about you. >> > http://makeashorterlink.com/?Q12A24FAB >> I don’t understand. You’re pointing me toward linear expulsions of >> proto-stellar gas? > Oh, has the link goofed? > http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt.support.shyness/msg/b85171e56b81e0 > 65

You’re link is okay I’m just dropping some fairly advanced ass science.

Response:

"William P" wrote in message

news:Xns96BEE4DD38D8willdotpsympaticodot@204.153.244.170… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "void *" wrote in > news:LvednZ2dnZ31JuCVnZ2dnbAqkt6dnZ2dRVny3Z2dnZ0@pipex.net: > > "William P" wrote in message > > news:Xns96BEBEAAAEEA8willdotpsympaticodot@204.153.244.170… > > > Lash Rambo wrote in > > > news:Xns96BEB2EE09877lrfakeaddrcom@68.1.17.6: > > > > Although I never quit my job to be on IRC, I did pretend to be a > > > > woman (and some poor schmuck’s girlfriend) on there for long enough > > > > I started having dreams where I was a woman, so maybe we’re even. > > > > (I only wish I was joking about this.) > > > (Meg is that you??!?) > > > Did I ever meet you on IRC? You sure know a lot more about me than I > > > know about you. > > http://makeashorterlink.com/?Q12A24FAB > I don’t understand. You’re pointing me toward linear expulsions of > proto-stellar gas?

Oh, has the link goofed? http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt.support.shyness/msg/b85171e56b81…

Response:

William P wrote in news:Xns96BEBEAAAEEA8willdotpsympaticodot@204.153.244.170: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Lash Rambo wrote in > news:Xns96BEB2EE09877lrfakeaddrcom@68.1.17.6: >>> I’ll leave this place as soon as it leads to things like >>> over-emotional reactions, anger, depression, frustration and >>> internet relay chat. >> Although I never quit my job to be on IRC, I did pretend to be a >> woman (and some poor schmuck’s girlfriend) on there for long enough I >> started having dreams where I was a woman, so maybe we’re even. >> (I only wish I was joking about this.) > (Meg is that you??!?) > Did I ever meet you on IRC? You sure know a lot more about me than I > know about you.

Hint: M.U.L.E.

Response:

"void *" wrote in news:LvednZ2dnZ31JuCVnZ2dnbAqkt6dnZ2dRVny3Z2dnZ0@pipex.net: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "William P" wrote in message > news:Xns96BEBEAAAEEA8willdotpsympaticodot@204.153.244.170… >> Lash Rambo wrote in >> news:Xns96BEB2EE09877lrfakeaddrcom@68.1.17.6: >> > Although I never quit my job to be on IRC, I did pretend to be a >> > woman (and some poor schmuck’s girlfriend) on there for long enough >> > I started having dreams where I was a woman, so maybe we’re even. >> > (I only wish I was joking about this.) >> (Meg is that you??!?) >> Did I ever meet you on IRC? You sure know a lot more about me than I >> know about you. > http://makeashorterlink.com/?Q12A24FAB

I don’t understand. You’re pointing me toward linear expulsions of proto-stellar gas?

Response:

"William P" wrote in message

news:Xns96BEBEAAAEEA8willdotpsympaticodot@204.153.244.170… > Lash Rambo wrote in > news:Xns96BEB2EE09877lrfakeaddrcom@68.1.17.6: > > Although I never quit my job to be on IRC, I did pretend to be a woman > > (and some poor schmuck’s girlfriend) on there for long enough I > > started having dreams where I was a woman, so maybe we’re even. > > (I only wish I was joking about this.) > (Meg is that you??!?) > Did I ever meet you on IRC? You sure know a lot more about me than I know > about you.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?Q12A24FAB

Response:

Lash Rambo wrote in news:Xns96BEB2EE09877lrfakeaddrcom@68.1.17.6: >> I’ll leave this place as soon as it leads to things like >> over-emotional reactions, anger, depression, frustration and internet >> relay chat. > Although I never quit my job to be on IRC, I did pretend to be a woman > (and some poor schmuck’s girlfriend) on there for long enough I > started having dreams where I was a woman, so maybe we’re even. > (I only wish I was joking about this.)

(Meg is that you??!?) Did I ever meet you on IRC? You sure know a lot more about me than I know about you.

Response:

"William P" wrote in message

news:Xns96BE87F68AD53willdotpsympaticodot@204.153.244.170… > It also might be my imagination, in other internet places I’ve been, it > seems like there isn’t any serious opposition to people calling each > other faggot and such

Stop hanging out in CS forums!

Response:

"Jim Winters" wrote in message

news:1125027267.103446.249230@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com… > "I’ve never seen you with a woman. Are you gay?" > "I’ve never seen you read a book. Are you illiterate?"

or how about: "I’ve never seen you with a woman. Are you gay?" "No, but I do get a thrill from anally raping people who insult me – Now, where did I put my knife?"

Response:

William P wrote in news:Xns96BEB14D8D210willdotpsympaticodot@204.153.244.170: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "fallout" wrote in > news:MuGdnSoG1MRP9pLeRVn-tg@comcast.com: >> Hi William, i agree with you but i don’t think it’s entirely the >> straight media’s fault. So many guys in the gay community act just >> like the stereotype that it makes me cringe. >> William, While it’s nice to see your posts again as they are always >> well written i wonder what your real reason was for coming back here. >> Aren’t things going well for you? > Hi Tom, I wouldn’t agree that my posts are all well written. But I’m > a pretty quick witted troll I have to admit. Things are going fine > for me. I don’t think I have any shyness issues that I care about > right now. > I’m at a point where I vaguely feel like I should grow up, and on one > level would really like to solve the other major issue in my life > besides shyness/women, which is procrastination and productivity. But > overall I’m pretty content (mostly). > I’ll leave this place as soon as it leads to things like > over-emotional reactions, anger, depression, frustration and internet > relay chat.

Although I never quit my job to be on IRC, I did pretend to be a woman (and some poor schmuck’s girlfriend) on there for long enough I started having dreams where I was a woman, so maybe we’re even. (I only wish I was joking about this.)